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Support for Notification #49
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Proposal: |
Before going into the review of the WebMention spec, I would like to understand the use cases for annotation. In particular, is there any user aspect that either WebMention or Pingback does not cover and, as a consequence, we have to pick it up as a work item at all (as opposed to just let annotation services pick their own solution at their heart's content). (To be clear, I have looked at the WebMention spec itself and, as you formulate, it does have legs, the question is whether we have to care about those legs in the first place!) |
Going to leave this here for now: Solid's ripples/pingback and hope to come back to it later. Please note that it is very much a draft until we gain more implementation experience. It may or may not stick around Solid. We are trying to see if/how it overlaps with Solid's idea of an "inbox". The most I can say about ripples/pingback for now is that, I have an early version working in dokieli for Web Annotations. LDP, RDF etc friendly. I would suggest steering away from Webmention since it is rather stuck on an archaic view of data on the Web. |
Well... being an outsider of these things, but looking at the comment of @csarven, this seems to suggest that the whole area of pingback (or whatever the modern name for it is) is still in flux. If so, I would suggest not to do anything in this area for annotations (pushing it, possibly, into a second version of the spec(s), ie, when things become more stable. It is not the job of this working group to sort this out... |
If Federated Annotation is out of scope of this WG, then ignore Webmention (and Solid/Ripples). But if it is in scope, and you want the simplest thing out there (just an 'FYI you were mentioned at this URI'), then it's a pretty good building block. Federation is only mentioned in the Annotation WG charter as
The following needs a link to be substantiated:
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I think it's in scope as an HTTP API that advances the state of annotation interoperability between disparate systems. It features heavily in Doug's ecosystem diagram, for example. That said, on the 12/16 call we can decide. |
@gobengo re: "simplest thing out there (just an 'FYI you were mentioned at this URI')" - So, that's nothing more than an HTTP POST with two parameters to a reserved endpoint somewhere. Are you suggesting that's spec or discussion worthy in this day and age? Let me put it this way, if simplicity was the only concern here, we only need to make a POST to an URL (e.g., an article which accepts notifications, i.e., POSTs) with a single parameter; source HTTP URI. That doesn't even introduce the extra step to discover the endpoint. If simplicity is truly what you are really after, there you have it. Webmention neither gives you a simple nor a precise mechanism to make notifications. It isn't precise simply because it offloads the work to the implementer to figure out which claim(s) there may be and or actually intended for the receiver. It doesn't include the In the case of Web Annotation, something like this (among many other possibilities) is what we'd like: "An annotation of a specific kind/role/motivation.. was made to this media fragment by someone on this date, with this license.. ". Webmention doesn't give you that by any stretch of the imagination. |
@azaroth42 I agree that notifications are in scope (not to mention that, we can already purpose LDP exactly for this). Solid extends LDP where applicable. I propose Solid/Ripples as a possibility, but like I said, it needs to iron out some stuff e.g., vocabulary. If the Web Annotation WG wants to investigate further, that'd be great. I also agree with @iherman that if this is at all stretching a bit far (given the state of things), it is better to leave out notifications for now. My preference is to pursue this further b/c I see where LDP/Web Annotation/Ripples fit together. cc @BigBlueHat |
I think webmention has the potential to develop in a direction that could be useful to Annotations. (I also optimistically think it has the potential to be compatible with solid/ripples, work in progress). If any of you have time to check it out and give input based on what you need, the SWWG would appreciate it. Given the Annotations data model, I can certainly see how webmention with the On the other hand, if the need here is to send even more data with the notification (rather than having the target fetch it from source) than just source+property+target, webmention is not ideal. Eg. solid/ripples would let you write arbitrary triples as the notification, rather than sending these predefined values. |
Thank you. I believe that at this moment this is the only reasonable choice for this Working Group. We have other, more annotation-specific fishes to fry. Formally, I would propose to leave this issue open but resolution should be postponed to (late) Spring 2016. If, by then, the Social Web WG gets significantly further, we can see whether a reference to their work is doable. If not, we should close the issue then without further actions. (In particular, I do not believe we should use telco time on this issue in the coming months.)
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Sending more data allows at least two use cases which are prevented by the Webmention approach right from the start, but possible with Solid/ripples:
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Given the timing (WebMention is only FPWD today, nothing normative from Solid/Ripples), I agree with @iherman. I propose: |
+1 |
1 similar comment
👍 |
Closing the issue, being discussed at telco, 2016-01-13, see http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-annotation-irc#T16-50-35 |
The protocol should support notification of activity within the annotation ecosystem, such as sending a notification to subscribers when an annotation is created on a resource that is being monitored.
This is a high level tracker issue but involves at least the following steps:
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