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Get rid of postinstall message #548

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jpike88 opened this issue May 20, 2019 · 103 comments

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@jpike88
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commented May 20, 2019

My installation log isn't for advertising space. If you want donations, please do the right thing and promote yourself in places where appropriate. My logs are long enough as it is without this.

The right thing to do is to remove it.

@nicolo-ribaudo

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commented May 20, 2019

You can hide it using the --loglevel silent (or warn, or error) npm option:

npm i --loglevel silent

Package authors have the right to ask users to support their projects. If people are going to be angry about it, they can choose to use a commercial product which doesn't have to ask for funds, instead of a free one.

@jpike88

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commented May 20, 2019

It's called donationware and it sets a bad precedent. Nobody wants to start adding --loglevel flags everywhere because a developers pollute those logs asking for money/work.

I hope you see where I'm coming from. Please keep it where it belongs.

@TomLingham

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commented May 20, 2019

@jpike88 it's free software. Once you start paying for it, maybe then you can dictate what is logged during installation. Otherwise, fork it and alias the dependency in your project if you feel so passionately about it.

@jpike88

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commented May 20, 2019

Nobody is dictating anything. It's called encouraging good practices, and instead of being so defensive you can consider what I'm saying on its merits. Or you don't have to, it's open source right ;) everyone's free to say what they want

@TomLingham

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commented May 20, 2019

I'm not being defensive. Merely encouraging good social practices (to use your own words). It's not unusual for these post install messages to be in packages installed through npm so saying that your are encouraging "good practices" is not founded in anything substantial.

@jpike88

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commented May 20, 2019

cssinjs/jss#881
remy/nodemon#1189
styled-components/styled-components#1590
pouchdb/pouchdb#7392

This discussion has played itself out in a few other repos, the trend is almost always the reconsidering of whether it's even an effective marketing tactic, and whether it's fair to the developers who utilise it. The move is then reversed. It is a highly unusual thing to do, and the blowback tends to be strong. Otherwise we'd be seeing every 10th or 20th package doing it (thank god we don't).

If you're not sure what I mean by 'good practices', you can read those links.

@TomLingham

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commented May 20, 2019

I appreciate you digging those up, but there are actually a lot of packages that do it

It's up to the maintainer - if it doesn't benefit them like you say, then I'm sure they'll change it in time. Just be glad they aren't mining crypto during the install 😂

@jpike88

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commented May 20, 2019

A miner would definitely make this complaint look small... lol

@jackturnbull

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commented May 20, 2019

My preference would be to keep the post-install messages clean; I see them as a good place to advertise recent breaking changes and knowing the size of most node_modules folders, if everyone starts doing it then we're in for a rough ride. But with that being said I respect that it's @zloirock's right to use it to ask for a little help. Hell, I'm using hundreds if not thousands of contributors' time so I think I'll survive.

I don't think I'll be the only one here but @jpike88 you've made it really difficult to thumbs up this post with the tone of the message. Nearly every sentence is self-absorbed, outright hostile, or reads as command.

@zloirock

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commented May 20, 2019

Dear @jpike88!

Almost 5 years almost every day I spend some hour for maintenance core-js. It's not a library from some lines which I can write and forget about it - it should react on any change in JavaScript standard or proposals, on any new JS engine release, on any significant bug in JS engines. core-js has become the de facto standard of JavaScript standard library features polyfill.

I was working on the project in my spare time. No one paid me for it, more other - I didn't use it actively in my work, I worked on it since I thought that it was required for JavaScript community. No one of browser vendors, TC39, big companies which use core-js helped me. Users started actively contribute to this project only some months ago.

Some previous months I worked almost fulltime on core-js@3 and polyfilling-related Babel features instead of making money as I thought it was important for JavaScript community and planned to find a new fulltime work after release.

2 months ago I started raising funds to core-js maintenance. Current result - 7$ / month on Patreon, 50$ / month on Open Collective. Not seriously, but better than nothing - users use Babel or their frameworks for polyfilling and just don't know that they use core-js indirectly. Not a problem since anyway I didn't think about open source as about a way to earn any serious money.

However, shit happens. Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case? Since previous months I worked on open source, I have not any financial pillow for solving those problems.

After a little discussion, I understood that I can't count to any help from Babel. Nothing to say.

So why not to make this little experiment? I think that some lines in NPM installation log, which can be hidden if it's required, are an acceptable price for using core-js. I don’t think that I’ll be able to get a however significant part of required at this moment money, however, each dollar makes sense. And some more people will know that I am ready to consider job offers.

And after that, someone says that I'm not right because I added a message on postinstall... The right thing for you is somehow supporting core-js instead of creating issues like this.

Initially, I wanted to add a message on postinstall as an experiment for some days, but because of your reaction I see that adding a message on postinstall was the right thing, so I leave it here. Thank you for this issue.

Let this issue be opened a little more time.

@papandreou

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commented May 20, 2019

This is rage-inducing. What if everybody did that?

@Anaphase

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commented May 20, 2019

I don't mind donation messages at all, but this little message at the end really bugs me:

Also, the author of core-js (https://github.com/zloirock) is looking for a good job -)

Is that really necessary?

@TomLingham

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commented May 20, 2019

@papandreou @Anaphase I was going to tap out of this conversation because I'd already made my point, however your entitlement is deafening. "It really bugs me", or "This is rage-inducing" are the faulty reasonings of individuals who are unable to muster even one modicum of empathy.

It sent a few extra lines through your stdout - if that is what keeps you up at night, then you've clearly lost all perspective.

@papandreou

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commented May 20, 2019

Whereas ad hominem attacks are signs of...?

@TomLingham

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commented May 20, 2019

Ok, so maybe that wasn't entirely called for - but the author has already explained themselves. Your feelings don't matter, neither do mine. Why continue to beat a dead horse? 🤔

@jpike88

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commented May 21, 2019

LOL... I predicted there would be blowback.

@jackturnbull not my intention to offend, and the way I talk may be nicer than the way I type. Not my intention to 'command' or insult anyone.

And @zloirock holy crap I don't even know what to say there... good luck I guess. This library is used by the angular cli and pretty much all of the angular community, I think you're going to continue to find more attention over time.

@IdanAdar

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commented May 21, 2019

With respect, it's fine to advertise... but WHY SO MUCH?
Once, twice... three times, but this? Disgusting.

> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-core/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-generator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-bindify-decorators/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-builder-binary-assignment-operator-visitor/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-call-delegate/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-define-map/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-explode-assignable-expression/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-explode-class/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-function-name/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

(node:517) MaxListenersExceededWarning: Possible EventEmitter memory leak detected. 11 SIGINT listeners added. Use emitter.setMaxListeners() to increase limit
Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-get-function-arity/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-hoist-variables/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-optimise-call-expression/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-regex/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-remap-async-to-generator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-replace-supers/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helpers/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-messages/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-check-es2015-constants/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-async-generator-functions/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-async-to-generator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-class-constructor-call/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-class-properties/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-decorators/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-arrow-functions/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-block-scoped-functions/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-block-scoping/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-classes/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-computed-properties/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-destructuring/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-duplicate-keys/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-for-of/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-function-name/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-literals/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-amd/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-commonjs/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-systemjs/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-umd/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-object-super/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-parameters/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-shorthand-properties/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-spread/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-sticky-regex/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-template-literals/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-typeof-symbol/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-unicode-regex/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-exponentiation-operator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-export-extensions/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-object-rest-spread/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-regenerator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-strict-mode/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-register/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-template/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-traverse/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@2.6.7 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-types/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js@3.1.1 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> core-js-pure@3.1.1 postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/core-js-pure
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)
@TomLingham

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commented May 21, 2019

@IadnAdar that is pretty verbose. I think that comes from many different packages depending on core-js. It's interesting to see just how many packages depend on it. Perhaps if you can suggest a way of limiting it to logging just once? 🤔

@IdanAdar

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commented May 21, 2019

Whomever added it to "make cash" / "advertise self", that is the person who should take a good look at him/herself and suggest a fix.

... Just show it once at the top before whatever process is happening takes place.

@TomLingham

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commented May 21, 2019

Sometimes people need to make money off things they normally do for free just for the love of it. It's just the way it is - maybe if more people would donate, then it might not be needed?

Post install is run after installing for every dependant package. Because it is so important in the ecosystem, that is why you are seeing the message so much. The author has already explained themselves in this issue. Have you read through the comments here already? I suggested forking and aliasing the package further up in this thread, perhaps give that a shot if it's causing you too much trouble right now.

@IdanAdar

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commented May 21, 2019

Yes, I read the thread and the reasoning is very thin...

Annoying users as a tool get donations only serves for the opposite. Psychology 101.
Right now I am so aggravated I'm not even going to consider what this was "supposed to achieve".

There is a way to get something, and this is done poorly and in bad taste. Good luck.

@Anaphase

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commented May 21, 2019

Whoooo boy this is getting heated! I just wanted to chime in again and say that there's nothing really wrong with asking for donations, this is free software and we shouldn't be bitching about it. If the verbose logs really bug you, just silence them like @nicolo-ribaudo said with npm install --loglevel warn. You can put this in your .npmrc so it runs every time, because honestly do you really need the output of an npm install aside from warnings & errors?

That being said, I still think it's in poor taste to have the last line asking to get hired. @zloirock should have that on his opencollective / patreon / github pages for interested parties, but it's wholly inappropriate to include in a postinstall message.

Anyway, I've now become a Patron of @zloirock on Patreon, thanks for all your hard work 👍

@kopax

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commented May 22, 2019

I am not a fan of postinstall advertisment but after reading your story, I just want to say I hope you will get through, and thanks for the big work. People should not blame too much others when it's about free and more over good work.

@ibnuda

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commented May 22, 2019

let me jump into the bandwagon.

zloirock, let's say that money (or opportunity) solves issues. so, at what price will you remove those lines? and jpike88 and friends should try to haggle that price down from their perceived value until equilibrium reached and then followed by paying zloirock that same amount of money (or opportunity).

win win? fair? you decide!

@Anaphase

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commented May 22, 2019

@ibnuda don't forget, someone has to give him a job too! 😂

@lazarljubenovic

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commented May 22, 2019

Everyone is saying how it is free and that's why the author can do whatever he wants. And yet so many people are browsing ad-powered websites for free, but use AdBlock to hide them.

Whether it annoys you or not, why deny the simple truth that postinstall message (which is usually one among hundreds) is not a place to post donation banners? Postinstall message is a place to inform me about the package being deprecated or if it has a security issue. It's a developer's log, full with information about installation, not a blog post.

People who are willing to give money to support a project are going to search for the project name and see the donation button/banner on the website/readme long before they even think about donating. Or do you expect people to use their credit cards through command line?

@nathanjd

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commented May 23, 2019

I'm a bit confused as to what I would be supporting with these donations. In another thread, you cited

It was related to my current burnout and problems

@rjgotten now I lost any motivation to work on it or another babel features. So no concrete timeline.

as the reason for this.

#496

I have two main questions which are sadly personal in nature but seem relevant.

  1. Why would you choose to quit your job to start working full time on something you have burnt out on and seem increasingly annoyed by?
  2. Would my donations be going towards legal fees for some harm that you have caused? I understand that an accident can cause unemployment and high medical bills itself but from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case?

If you are in prison, who will maintain it then?

@zloirock

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commented May 23, 2019

@nathanjd

  1. Because at that moment I didn't think that Babel would betray me? I worked on polyfilling stuff for Babel almost from the start of the project, but when I asked about any help and it was really required - I received a refusal.

  2. Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

If you are in prison, who will maintain it then?

See above - I haven't any options.

@jonaskuske

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commented Jun 10, 2019

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

That analogy is broken. You didn't take the one sofa, you get a new and improved sofa from this place every once in a while. Some day the place decides that it can't afford this anymore and adds a note "please support us" to the sofa. You're free to keep your old sofa without the note however!

So going by the Sofa analogy, lock your dependencies to versions without the postinstall message and enjoy all the free work you can profit of, without ads!

@cherscarlett

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commented Jun 10, 2019

If everyone in this thread contributed to his open collective, he wouldn't need the ads anymore.

We're getting free software, that we ALL use, and the person who has worked tirelessly on it is struggling financially, while we are all thriving off of his back.

Forking his work, @jpike88, and no longer encouraging folks to donate is absolutely classless and harmful, and I am deeply ashamed of the entitlement we have come to. Someone in our community needs our help, clearly, and your solution is to take advantage of his work for your own selfish want to not see his plea for that help.

@jpike88

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@cherscarlett you and some others here are totally mischaracterising where I'm coming from. Instead of mindlessly joining the righteous brigade, take a step back and understand WHY some people have reacted negatively to this. In the real world, no issue is black and white. People have different angles, and while you may THINK you're right because you're joining in a wave of others with the same message, you're only ever so right.

This post was created a month ago, and likes/dislikes racked evenly because those who came to the repo actually encountered the issue themselves. Things went quiet, and points were exchanged, the argument was made without any needless drama and came to a close. Then suddenly BAM it hits twitter and a bunch of people have fresh meat to tear into. The amount of manufactured drama I'm seeing here is insane.

You should closely read what I've posted, everything I've posted, in this thread. Then you should edit your post and remove the part where I'm not encouraging support for @zloirock. I have simply been advocating the importance of current conventions, and am not, nor was I ever trying to start a shitstorm aimed at the maintainer. If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would. He was always capable of shoring up work without a bunch of keyboard warriors flocking in from social media.

@ConstantinChirila passive aggressive remarks aside, you're right, I've brought attention to him through this, and that can only help him. Not what I intended of course, I just wanted to make my point... but I'm genuinely glad. But I stand by everything I've said because I think it has its merits. I'm not going to throw mud at anybody because I didn't come here to do that.

@veermangat

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@jpike88 I have upvoted your issue, not because I liked what was said but because this has prompted babel to pay @zloirock $5000. Which is awesome.

Screenshot 2019-06-10 at 16 31 45

@jpike88

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commented Jun 10, 2019

Great, it makes sense for Babel to support him, and it's long overdue. It's almost like I can still stand behind my original argument while having empathy for the maintainer.

@jlengstorf

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@jpike88 the vast majority of free things are ad-supported: public transit, infrastructure, broadcast TV, Google, social media — open source not being ad-supported is an exception, not the rule. Attacking volunteers because the model is broken is picking the wrong hill to die on.

Yes, a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy, but compared to the cost/annoyance of hand-rolling all of our software and dealing with the maintenance of it, it's an extraordinarily small price to pay.

Overall: it would be great if OSS didn’t have ads. That would require the companies profiting from open source to establish budgets and compensate the developers putting in those hours in a way that makes it sustainable.

In the meantime, I've backed this project on Open Collective. I'll continue pushing my employer and others to sponsor the OSS projects powering our products. I hope y'all will do the same.

@AlexCatch

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commented Jun 10, 2019

Honestly the amount of entitlement in this thread is baffling. He could put the entire works of Shakespeare in the post install message and no one has the right to challenge it unless they put in as much work as the author. If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple as.

@jpike88

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commented Jun 10, 2019

a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy

Well, my point is that a few can become more than a few. That was always my sole point. And someone has to be advocating for that. Because if it becomes acceptable for other projects to do it, we may see a cascade of log hell across countless servers around the world. And that becomes the new normal.

I'll chat to my partners about backing the project too, after all the shit I've stirred he deserves that much from me.

@mugabe

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commented Jun 10, 2019

The main problem that the most of developers underestimate the role of core-js. I think a lot of them even don't have idea what this library do. Hey, it's core of js, should it not be supported by Google, Mozilla, NodeJS?
But five lines of adverts from library that was not included directly by the end developer is really harms. I think it would be more effective if @zloyrock leave only one line with short and simple explanation what is it for and one link to the support page.

@jpike88 If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would.

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic.

@kossnocorp

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@mugabe haha, love the edits history 👌

@garygreen

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commented Jun 10, 2019

It's worth reminding.

@jpike88

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commented Jun 10, 2019

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic

@mugabe no, I was referring to the part where I got called a f**ing asshole. My edits removed what was an admittely harsh tone in a few spots to make the point of my issue clearer. There was never name calling, or any sort of disparaging of @zloirock, I'm sure he'd back me up on that. And it's still going to be enough to upset some people.

@cherscarlett

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@jpike88 Sit down. I read what you wrote, and saw your fork. That is where I'm coming from. I came across this issue because I care deeply about our community, and a post sharing specifically his comment about his financial situation led me here. You don't get to say that I'm mischaracterizing your intention and then say that I'm a part of an angry mob with no mind of my own.

The fact is that after reading that @zloirock gets no compensation for one of the most heavily used packages in our ecosystem, and how much financial trouble he is in currently, you continued to hock your ad-free fork, instead of asking how you can help remove the need for advertising and get him compensated for his hard work.

Keep in mind how many of us came in here after doing something to help @zloirock get the compensation he has deserved for a long time. You could have done the same thing, but you haven't. I'm sure everyone will consider you forgiven for your classless behavior here once we see your face on his patreon or open collective.

Even a $1 a month contribution helps. You can become a backer here:

🎉 https://opencollective.com/core-js 🎉

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@cherscarlett if you read his post, you'd realise how dire his situation is, and how meagre his income from core-js is, even after all this attention. He needs a stable income now, and like I've already said multiple times, he's more than capable of getting one quickly with his credentials. He'd be snapped up by any decent software shop in Europe. There was already talk early on about whether or not Babel should be supporting him (or more importantly, whether or not they're obligated to, and what that means), and they've literally just doubled his open collective budget. But it's only $5000USD for a yearly budget. If that's coming from Babel, then he'd need a huge amount more exposure to make this tenable. I'm for practical measures not token gestures.

Maybe instead of trying to shame an individual, you should be applying pressure to those that can actually make living off core-js a realistic scenario. And that's all the bigger organisations that use this project.

@whitfin

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commented Jun 10, 2019

Are you running an ad blocker in the browser to make web pages do not show ads? It is the same thing here more or less.

@igeligel there is a large difference between npm being run silently and using an Ad blocker in a browser. Silent npm is closer to the analogy of your browser ad blocker also making every web page blank.

This package added a straight forward env variable that allows you to disable the ads easily, which is way more than your average website does for you – now what's "ridiculous" about that?!

You either misread or misunderstood; I said people telling you to change your npm configuration to fix this is ridiculous. The environment variable is fine, except that it's not communicated in the message itself. People will only find it after they come to the repository to complain.

It's also not a good mechanism in general; imagine your ad blocker in a browser but you have to install a different blocker for every website. Am I meant to just export $ADBLOCK forever, just for this package? What if someone makes a package with $NO_ADS and $REMOVE_ADS, etc?

“I don’t use the package” is similarly short-sighted. That’s the point...that you don’t think that you use it, when in reality you almost certainly do.

@KyeRussell this is evidently aimed at what I said, so I'd like to point out that I wasn't just saying it for the sake of it. A dependency in a work project did not separate their dependencies properly, and so I have a bunch of @babel dependencies which depend on core-js (which are all entirely unused). Not a big deal, but just found it worth mentioning that calling someone short-sighted when you don't know their circumstance is never going to help things. Give people more credit!

@jpike88 I don't particularly care for this thread; I was brought here on a bored evening after seeing the message half a dozen times during an install. After seeing what this thread is becoming, I probably won't comment further, and I'd probably advise you to do the same. You've been given an answer; using an environment variable to suppress the message. This is the solution to this issue; you're probably not going to get another one. I think it would be beneficial to close this for everyone involved.

As a note to everyone arguing on behalf of the author, particularly those using the concept of "if you don't like it, don't use it"; please keep in mind what you are arguing for. Lessening the audience of the package is potentially more harmful than removing the message itself. An advertisement is worthless without an audience.

Anyway, going to unsubscribe at this point. Have a good week everyone!

@jpike88 jpike88 closed this Jun 10, 2019

@cherscarlett

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commented Jun 10, 2019

@jpike88 I read his post, and immediately started drawing more attention to his open-collective. I've already gotten my org to sponsor him. I backed him personally, too. I've lifted his situation to more than 10,000 people on my Twitter, and encouraged everyone to back him. Please don't assume to know what I'm doing to help.

It would do you well to become a backer, close this issue, and remove your fork.

If you feel shame by what I've said to you, look inward and consider your actions in the future.

@ThomasRedstone

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commented Jun 10, 2019

Which way of giving you money results in you keeping more of the money?

@alanna

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commented Jun 10, 2019

If people were already supporting open source projects enough, they wouldn't need to ask for donations. That is how to fix this problem, not by criticising maintainers who have given untold hours of their time for free to create something that you obviously value (since you are installing it).

Like with everything in open source, be grateful for the hard work others have gifted—and if you don't like something, contribute (code and/or money) to improve it, fork it, or don't use it. Open source maintainers burn out because people like those in this thread are entitled, demanding, and negative, instead of supportive, and that hurts the whole community.

@hinell

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commented Jun 11, 2019

Wow, thanks for complaining. Without you I wouldn't know that such a great repo has started an advertisement. Probably it wasn't the best way but I think you have to donate some pennies so he can fix output or do it by yourself. Now you can close this issue safely.

@danielrree

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@zloirock:

Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case?

@nathanjd:

Would my donations be going towards legal fees for some harm that you have caused? I understand that an accident can cause unemployment and high medical bills itself but from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

@zloirock:

Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

Disclaimer: I do not know about this situation more than you (reader) do.

The way I see it at this moment (after reading this discussion), it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project (i.e. investing into further work on the project, which I understand and fully support), but it seems to be a fundraiser to cover legal expenses for a person who potentially harmed someone or damaged property.

I think it would be quite hard to understand for people living in EU or USA, but here's a short explanation: in Russia, there's a limit for driving accidents' 3rd party liability insurance, which is around 8000 USD (compared to EU's millions of EUR). An excess should be covered directly by the person who caused such harm. And it's really hard to buy any other kind of 3rd party liability insurance, so it's either you have this small insurance or nothing.

So if he estimates his potential expenses to be more than a hundred thousands dollars, then it was probably something REALLY serious. Personally I am not ready to pay someone's lawyer to prove that person is not guilty (especially if he himself says that he's guilty according to the law).

@zloirock I'm not sure if you are ready to share the details. At the same time I think that if you really need money to cover such expenses, it would be fair to share some details with people who give you their hard-earned money.

@hinell

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@danielrree
Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project

I would like to point out that he already did spend a lot of time and moneys and it is never too late to ask for some help to recover some of these expenses back. There could be a lot of reasons to do that right now.
But what I don't get is the way you justify things in this case.

Nobody can guarantee you that what you have donated won't go to lawyers to cover legal expenses in the future cause such things may happen completely unpredictably in whole bunch of cases, yet once you know about them and knowing that work was done you are all of sudden "not ready"...

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.😏

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@hinell

Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

Then explain please, how it works in Russia. I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity. But there are laws and if you live in or visit a country, you need to play by the rules.

If he had said something like "I'm being set up by the (police / government / judges / detectives / prosecutors)", I wouldn't even have gotten involved in this thread at all. But he chose to say that "thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault", which implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

I sincerely hope he will be fine, not because he is an author of this package, but because he is a human being. I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.😏

I'm sorry, but I did not personally insult neither him or you, so please refrain from judging other person's actions based on your standards. I read a discussion, couldn't draw any conclusions (because there was not enough info), asked for more info, and tried to do it without much guesswork but still tried to explain my point of view. I will not comment on the reasons why "asking for financial help when you got legal issues" is a bit different thing from "asking for financial help to work on this project full time" because I want to avoid saying anything that can make anyone think I'm trying to accuse him of something.

@hinell

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commented Jun 11, 2019

I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity.

That's entirely possible thing here sadly. You may contact me if you want so we can talk more about him cause I'm personally Russian and I'm interested in such cases. Especially if they are illegal.

"thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault"
implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it.
I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

You've made assumptions which are far further than what he've actually said (he didn't say "at fault"). We may not interpret in any way unless he clarifies everything. On the other side I don't believe he could have engaged in any illegal activity though it's pure speculations so please, don't make far going assumptions which are based only on your perceived standards.

On the other hand I understand if folks won't be willing to support Russian regime in any way so it's reasonable (I won't do it too lol) but I personally hope that he eventually clarifies everything and it's gonna be fine. He is looking for the job btw so I think he is optimistic in this sense (which is another reason btw which probably makes your conclusions wrong).

so please refrain from judging

Oh fine, I won't.

@ju1i4n

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@danielrree

but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

Ohhh, you are so naive my friend :) The law doesn't work in Russia and publicity + journalists will not help at all..... even if they try they go to jail as well.

@hinell

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@ju1i4n My Germany friend probably knows what he is talking about but this is unrelated to this issue. 😏

@ju1i4n

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@hinell, I’m not German, just work here ;)

@danielrree

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commented Jun 11, 2019

@hinell I based my assumption on these two phrases which went like this:

Person 1: from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

Person 2: Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

But probably you are right, I jumped to a conclusion because I wanted to explain my point. I never assumed that he engaged in illegal activity. There are a ton of things person can do without bad intentions, and still be held liable. And there's probably no point in discussing it further, because there's not enough info.

If my words sound like an insult to someone — I'm sorry and I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.

I also want to say sorry to @zloirock for my assumptions because he's the person we are talking about here, and he didn't get a chance to say anything yet. I hope your situation will be resolved.

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