Map changes merge attempt #197
Conversation
* replaced FIDs in the scenery protos. * removed the old elevator scenery objects in epax.map and placed the same ones again (to show the altered rusty appearance) * edited the scripts to change the start position and not to open the door below in the utility level (because now it'ss opened by default)
…the start position of one of party members, causing sfall tries to re-position the party member, also it looks a bit too crowded.
- Tribesmen will no longer play equip spear animation every time that combat is started. - One female tribal gets a sledgehammer instead, to show Pixote's extra tribal animation. - Fishermen have their inventory fixed, before they 0 stacks of poles.
… in city3-8 maps so the player will get spawned at incorrect position, away from the car and mobs.
2. fix to the stable boy, his routine might get stuck if player leaves the inn map then return. he'd just stand in the same pen not moving anymore, only go back to his room at night but never resume his work.
…their original position, so they don't block the shelves.
…e using Skynet's base proto (PID 16777295) so they actually get "leveled up" along with Skynet when you enter the map. (For example if Skynet is at max level in party, when PC enters the level those bots have 210 hp). Now replaced with generic robobrain (PID 16777291) instead, just like in SAD.
… There is supposed to be only one ERSI canister which you get from Mr.Chemmie, not from killing robots. - The script is for EPA companions' personal lockers because their position is shifted. Fix by NovaRain.
… There is supposed to be only one ERSI canister which you get from Mr.Chemmie, not from killing robots. - The script is for EPA companions' personal lockers because their position is shifted. Missed maps in previous commit. Fix by NovaRain.
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It's be great if they were reverted to vanilla state, but unfortunately they aren't. |
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Sounds like the updated vanilla maps are not perfect, but still better than what's already in master. So we're only improving things with the merge? Maybe later someone could clean them up even more to be closer to vanilla, but we have what we have. |
I didn't said they are reverted to vanilla, just that they are better now than before. Honestly I have no idea why you have such problems with it. Just compare the old and new Broken Hills maps. It's plain obvious which one looks better. And it's the same with all the other maps as well. |
I didn't say you said that. I want:
This change is the exact opposite of all that, which is why I have a problem with it. |
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As I understand, map changes were all made as one big pass to clean up the maps. Because map changes involve art/proto edits, it's too much work to try and somehow split them into pieces. It's just one big feature. I don't see how we can turn it into "small atomic commits". I get it, when changes are small they are easier to track and revert. But this is inherently a big feature. You can't turn it into a bunch of small features. As I suggested, let's do more testing of these maps (or you can also check them yourself). If there's no major issues, merge. Or just merge right now and let the possible issues be discovered and fixed in their own course. When you took the RP initially, it was just like that - a big pile of some else's work that you maintained. It's the same thing but on a smaller scale. Can't expect all changes to be small tweaks. Big progress on projects needs big changes like that. |
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I don't agree that it's inherently a big feature. It's made into one. I'm not sure what to do with it, but anyway there's a dozen other issues in UPU and RPU repos, so there's time to think. |
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Well I've made a suggestion what to do with it, you've yet to explain why you ignore it. Unless you're willing to dissect and re-make all these changes yourself, you can't expect people to repeat their work in a way that suits your vision of "due process". This is not a commercial project, it's a hobby, people do this work in their spare time. We should respect that.
Are you referring to RP, the map redesign or the branch itself? If you could explain better what exactly it is you think this new design makes worse than the one in master, it would be easier to follow your reasoning... |
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I don't expect anything, just explain why I'm not merging and don't promise to merge. |
Sorry, but I don't understand the explanation. You said you want to have small, atomic changes. But artistic redesign is not the same as code. Imagine if you ask a painter to explain and document every stroke of paint he made before the painting can be accepted in the gallery? You can only take in the whole painting and either accept it as a whole, or not. If you don't like the end result (and not the "process"), then please state it clearly. Maybe a new design pass can be made by the community to address your concerns. So we all get a better game in the end.
Can you please be less cryptic and elaborate so we don't go in circles any longer? What do you mean by "design of the patch" exactly and how it can be improved? Getting back to my suggestion, why is just testing the whole thing and applying fixes (if needed) on top is not acceptable to you? You can't have the same maps in UP and RPU because they are inherently different beasts. At least originally, UP was about fixing bugs in vanilla game, without any design changes or additions. RPU is a community version of "uncut" Fallout 2, basically a mod. It always had some very controversial and opinionated features, but for the lack of a better alternative (apart from Megamod), people played it. And you choose Killap's mod as a basis for this project, despite it having all these map differences. With all that said, I really struggle to understand how this new redesign (from the author of the first redesign) can possible make things worse and not better? |
A bad analogy is like a kitten with a door. A hundred maps is not a painting.
I don't know anything about end result other than what I heard, which is generally positive. (Although in my experience, sloppy processes yield poorer results more often.)
Just because I did it once, doesn't mean I want to go all over again.
You can, or you can try, at least. The eventual goal for UPU and RPU is to become more convergent, and possibly modular, so RPU additions could be enabled or disabled at will.
I don't know if it's better or worse, but I know it's more work. |
Nobody asking you specifically to test it. The bigger community can do it. Whoever is testing already and whoever else will be interested to try it out.
To make them "convergent" wouldn't you want the maps to be closer to vanilla? That's what this redesign does, from what I've heard. So that's a reason for merge not against it.
What work is that? |
Changed dat compression level to "best" for smaller package size. (reason: gameplay performance is more about decompression, and deflate decompression doesn't take more system resource comparing to "fastest" setting in a noticeable way.)
* now it quits to the main menu rather than letting player ignore the warning and continue the game. Fixed both NPC and player crippled indicators showing up when only the player is crippled. Enabled Enclave death endings while on the oil rig.
Some pixel edits/fixes to zipgun.frm. Added missing elevation name for V15 Squat map.
Recompressed f2_res.dat.
* just a copy of elevation 2, for playing Matt's death sequence.
# Conflicts: # data/text/po/italian.po # data/text/po/portuguese.po
Fixed the map edge data for vill.map.
Unified the line endings in credits.txt.
* ddraw.ini - remove obsolete setting; debug.log disabled by default, to prevent excessive log file size after a long gameplay session. * f2_res.ini - add mission setting and description (from f1_res.ini), some minor textual edits.
* based on Pixote's modified worldmap, Lexx edited the tiles to visually match the actual "city" terrain type.
* ref: BGforgeNet#204 Fixed missing player name in Zaius' dialogue for low-IN players. * ref: BGforgeNet#205
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I guess there is no point keeping this open. I will maintain this branch as a mod on nexus in the meantime: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout2/mods/73/ Please reconsider merging this in future. In the absence of killap, since this comes from one of RP original devs, it's as official as it gets. It's been a year since this came out. People played it, bugs were fixed. What are we waiting for? Blessing from killap? |
I think it might be time to finally merge these changes. There were no conflicts with the master. And several people have play-tested these maps already.
Not sure what to do with msg changes though. Probably need to update one of those po files or something.