Intent to add a coin miner for a trial run

[ParticleCore]

This ties a bit with #149 since I really dislike the idea to profit from telemetry, but I also need to find a way to make this hobby profitable.

I intend to add a coin miner together with the extension for a trial run to see if it is even worth it. Although I might change my mind about this later, initially this will be enabled by default because I assume that the current user base is too small to spare the "extra hand" in order to achieve a reliable projection of this trial. Nevertheless it would have an option to disable and control the number of threads it can use.

At the moment I have been studying the available options and so far it seems that coin hive is the best option overall.

The plan is to:

• have only one instance of it running at any session (session = one or more browser windows that can communicate between tabs)
• only the lowest "performance" by default (1 thread running)
• pause/stop when a video starts playing

I also understand how this feels like a stupid idea, but I do not have any means to make any profit that is worth the time I am dedicating to this extension, and I need to understand if this will be worth while before investing it for the stable release, which I am planning to reach before October starts, although I might have to push that date a bit further, unfortunately.

I only ask that any upset users understand my position, I am trying to make this profitable without making this a pay-to-use extension, and I am not finding a lot of options. I have looked through ads (I hate it and most likely wouldn't work), selling telemetry (I don't like the idea) and now mining currency, which appears to be a good option.

This goes without saying; if donations do improve with the aging of the extension, this or any other method for profiting would be halted seeing that they would no longer be needed, however the past almost 3 years showed that this wasn't something that would be achieved any time soon.

I would really appreciate constructive feedback as well as alternatives to coin hive, if you know of better options, or another option to make this extension profitable.

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EDIT 1: adding an index of my replies here as a follow up of this post

#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)
#189 (comment)

EDIT 2: adding updating feature design for easier insight

• This feature will be opt-in
• The users will be informed of its implementation and asked if they want to help out or not (still undecided whether to do this via a modal window or a dedicated window)
• The summary of the feature will link to a more detailed explanation, including details about the inner works of the miner itself
• The feature will only run when videos are not playing, but for the sake of curiosity there will be an option where users can enable to let it run while videos are playing
  • Alternative: keep it running on lowest possible setting when videos are playing (sessions on YouTube are heavy on video watching, meaning that the miner would be for the most part stopped)
• The feature will allow control of how much mining the user allows: number of threads and throttle slider (less threads and higher throttle = less CPU usage and less mining)
• Default feature values will be set for half the number of CPU threads at 0.75 throttle or 1 thread at 0.5 throttle (still learning this because I haven't fully grasped how it works)
• This feature will never run on laptops that are not charging and on mobile devices (tablets, for example)
• Only one mining instance can run at any time, meaning that if there are multiple tabs open, only one tab can be mining and the rest will be paused/stopped (ideally this should be controlled via active page is the one the miner can start/resume, all inactive pages pause/stop)

[mooms06]

You should not do that without warning your users with a window or something, otherwise it's a malware.
Do you plan to add it in the user script as well or only the extension ?

[demonkingzaine]

I'll probably stop using Iridium in the event mining software is added.

[Deranox]

What happened to developers making an addon purely out of the goodness of their hearts in their free time ? You know - because it would be useful for you and the people. A hobby doesn't necessarily mean you need to make a profit. If you're not happy with the time you spend on it because you're losing money by not getting a real job because of the time needed - don't do it. Someone else might do it in their free time. I'll never use your product now. Good day.

[Roph]

How to destroy your userbase and/or trigger a fork in one fell swoop.

[Timvde]

I understand that this may sound like a good idea. Computers usually have cycles to spare, you don't have to show annoying ads to your users, and you make a small profit out of it. However, just imagine for a second that coin miners become a common thing. A user would easily have a handful or even a dozen of coin mining threads running, which would quickly deteriorate overall performance and decimate battery life. Please, don't set this trend.

[ys-chung]

What if the user (like me) are on a laptop, wouldn't this reduce the battery life dramatically? Watching YouTube is already power intensive for laptops, but when the video is not playing the battery is draining, you can see how this would impact users using laptops.

[ghost]

I would support this decision if, and only if, it is guaranteed to be an opt-in feature in it's final release. Though I would definitely not like coin miners to become a norm.

[krisu5]

No thank you, I move to maia-yt (when it's ready) rather if this happens.

I noticed you have a Patreon (I think you should advertise donation options better IMO), I consider putting some money, but only if you drop the mining idea.

[BubiBalboa]

Rather than do this coin miner thing you should nag people for donations. Maybe a page that opens on every update. This has the benefit to show people how much work you put into this addon.

Maybe we should petition Mozilla to add the option for paid premium addons. Devs have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their work and a donation button is not enough for that. Food for thought.

[Morphello]

This is a sure fire way to destroy any good will you've had with your community and userbase and instantly destroy your credibility as a developer. I understand the desire to monetize your hard work but this is not the way to do it. A lot of the community have already moved away from your addon because you sold the chrome extension to a 3rd party and didn't inform anyone until after it was turned into malware.

At best you'll succeed in creating better competition to your addon, or at worst, someone will just steal your code and take the miner out of it, drawing away your entire user base.

Consider an update page after each major change with a donate link. Consider (strictly opt in) telemetry with an explanation of what is data is sent. Consider adding a support link that directs the user to a paid advertisment, as per free games with advertising allow you to do to support them.

[TheFinalCut83]

Sure way to lose the lion's share of the audience. At least it must be opt-in and off by default, but it's naive to believe that the author will agree to this.

[RibShark]

I would be fine with this if the following conditions were met:

1. The ability to opt-out of the coin miner is included.
2. As soon as the extension is loaded for the first time, a clear (possibly modal) message is displayed describing the functionality of the coin miner and how it helps you develop the extension.
3. A clear opt-out button is included in the afformentioned message.

FWIW I would not opt-out of such a thing.

[surashu]

@TheFinalCut83 what do you mean by "it's naive to believe that the author will agree to this"? This thread was opened by the script's author himself.

[ImSpecial]

This is one incredibly stupid move if you go through with it, I don't care if it's optional or opt-out, I don't want this add-on to become bloated with even more lines of miner code, even if it is inactive just sitting there. Hope this kind of stuff never finds a way onto AMO.

[eberhardweber]

I would consider this to be an "opt-in" feature instead of an "opt-out".

I think at the very least you should consider advertising Patreon and Paypal on the Iridium Settings page before resorting to such measures.

Not everyone comes to Github to follow up on updates/issues, so an announcement section on the settings page is probably a good idea as well.

[TheFinalCut83]

@surashu it was about "at least it must be opt-in and off by default", but something tells me that if the author wants to add a miner, it intends to enable by default.

[ParticleCore]

I am glad to see a lot more users input about this, I appreciate everyone cluing in and showing how they feel about having a feature like this in some way and having it at all.

This is a tricky situation, as I tried to explain, because I have already looked at other alternatives and expressed my position about them.

I am perfectly OK with having this feature opt-in only (which is how it should be), but the goal is to check the results of this trial run to see if this feature is even worth having, it might end up not being worth having at all, and having it enabled by default will yield more users participating than the other way around.

As I understand there are users that are against having this at all, meaning that even if the feature was added and made opt-in only, they are still against it, which makes this even more problematic to deal with, but others are OK with having it, as long as it is opt-in.

Adding a feature like this would obviously be clearly informed to the user in a modal window as soon as it was updated, or perhaps I should start considering an update info page dedicated to things like this, just like @BubiBalboa and @Morphello suggested.

Let's see, how about this, to make things clear and better (the main concern) as best as I can:

• This feature will be opt-in only, off by default
• The user will be prompted with a request to enable it if he wants to contribute/participate in the trial run, linking to a more detailed explanation in the short description of the feature.
• The rest of the details are the same as the ones in the first post

Regarding the concerns of battery brought up by @alphachung , this would only run on a computer with no battery (desktop PC) or only while the computer is charging (laptop). This will NOT run on a mobile platform, such as tablets, regardless of their battery status.

@mooms06 This would be available throughout all the versions, if it works at all, but not before the trial run results

@Timvde I see your point and would be a troublesome situation indeed, but this would always be an option that users can turn off/on whenever they want to, at least anything made by me it will be.

And the "better" allternative is to "nag" users for donations? I really hate that and I am sure that others will hate it too, but that's not even the core problem. The main problem here is to see if this option is actually viable, because it might not be worth having at all and be discarded, which is why it is important to test it and see how it pans out.

[ParticleCore]

@azraelle moot point. If it has ads it gets marked as "RiskWare.Adware", if it has donation requests it gets marked as "RiskWare.Nagware", etc.

Regardless, that is not the focus of this issue, but I do appreciate that concern.

[ahegaofish]

Are you fucking retarded? If you can't keep doing this completely free, give it up.
I hope idiots will stop downloading this addon, regardless of an opt-in/out option. Nagware? Coinminer? Coin miner is 10x worse, you will be ruining the battery and making it impossible for people who aren't computer savvy in the least on old computers.
You are shameless. Do you not feel like scum even talking about this? If it's too much of a problem for it to not be profitable for you, then give it up and let the free market take over, you've been useful for the time being but you are replaceable, goodbye.
Btw, even considering any of this KILLS any chance with Linux users since they are much more intelligent when it comes to this crap and have zero tolerance on retardation. Good job.

[ParticleCore]

@ybnrmalatall This issue was not opened to post insults. Further behavior like that will result in the respective users being blocked permanently.

No one here is forcing you to use anything and the feature hasn't been implemented at all. If you don't like that this is being discussed then you can stop using the userscript, leave this repository and use any other extension that does what you want.

[ahegaofish]

I've made it pretty clear that I don't care about being blocked as I am already done with your userscript on principle alone. I find you disgusting now. Good riddance.

[ParticleCore]

I've made it pretty clear that I don't care about being blocked

You actually didn't, not even after you edited your reply to add more insults, but now you made it pretty clear. Stay well.

[surashu]

I don't get why there's a need to be slinging insults in an otherwise level-headed discussion thread.

[sheddup]

@ybnrmalatall

you will be ruining the battery and making it impossible for people who aren't computer savvy in the least on old computers.

Clearly not impossible if its an opt-in feature, you're just being reactionary. Don't let your emotions control you like that and think rationally.

[ParticleCore]

The main post has been updated with the feature design in order to make it easier for new comers to grasp the overall idea at glance.
This design can change over time according to the discussion.
I plan on going forward with the trial run after 1 week (starting on October 1st) with the duration of 1 month (can also be shorter, depending on how things go). This discussion will stay open until then.
The goal is to have a decent insight of the trial run before moving to release stage, which I want to be on November, but, again, this might change depending on the development of the extension.

[Morphello]

If you are determined to put this method of monetisation in your product, you must frame it strictly from a volunteer and "helping the developer" standpoint. "Default on" trials are not the way to do it. Even as a test, people will be quick to forget what is going on, notice their browser eating up CPU cycles and panic.

You must staunchly ask your userbase (in a popup update page) if they like they addon and if they are willing to donate their CPU time to you. Explain the situation, explain what they can do to help. A lot of people would be more than willing to donate idle CPU time if it can directly translate into making the addon better. A lot of people simply wouldn't. I personally would personally go to ad generating links, white list popups with ad displays and specifically click and follow through adlinks to maximize the revenue for the developer. I would also provide detailed bug reports with as much information as I can to help developers eliminate bugs. I would not personally donate CPU cycles because where I live, I pay 43c USD per kWh in power and it would cost me far more in power than an actual donation would.

People are more than willing to donate their time, effort and money to a good cause. Look at all the CPU power that gets donated to Folding@Home. You just need more awareness and to come at the problem from a humble position. Also keep in mind that you aren't trying to cure cancer or other diseases, you've written an addon to provide extra functionality to an existing platform. Every bit of functionality you have can be found in other addons, you're just one of the better options at the moment.

[ParticleCore]

@Morphello I had already posted an updated design of the feature in the main post at the top covering basically all that you've said, but with bulletpoints, and I understand that there are users which CPU time is not something cheap. The message itself is not a priority right now seeing that this is suppose to be a trial run, the only thing it will inform is just that and an explanation for why the trial is taking place. If it works out, then a proper message will be created for the purpose of final integration.

Ads are not a viable option for 3 main reasons, basically: 1) I hate ads and I do not trust them at all 2) I am certain the Chrome Webstore would never allow it 3) I am almost certain AMO wouldn't either

I approached this idea from my POV as a user and I would rather have an option to donate CPU time in exchange for ads on websites, paywalls or subscription services. When comparing it to the donations I concluded that it would be worth giving it a try.

I am fully aware that I am not doing clinical research here and I know very well what this extension is, I have been saying it since I created YT+, it is not a replacement for anything, it is just another option for anyone that wants what it offers.

But again, this is not final integration, it is just a trial run. It might even show that it is not worth it, which is what I am expecting after having read plenty of testimonies from others that tried the same, in which case it is removed from the extension.

[p671366]

unacceptable, you just killed your userbase and the only people who will still use this are brainless loyalists or people who are simply unaware that you are planning to place malicious crap into their browsers. Good riddance to your greed, I'm moving onto enhancer for youtube at least they claim that they respect user privacy unlike you. Embarrassing to be honest...

[ParticleCore]

at least they claim that they respect user privacy unlike you

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I use Google Analytics to analyse traffic on my website, and also use third party advertisements. Some of these advertisers may use technologies such as cookies and web beacons when they advertise on my website, which will also send these advertisers (such as Google through the Google AdSense program) non-personally identifiable information including your IP address, your ISP, the browser you used to visit my website, and in some cases, whether you have Flash® installed or not.

I also may use DART cookies for ad serving through Google’s DoubleClick, which places a cookie on your browser when you are browsing the web and visit a website using DoubleClick advertising (including some Google AdSense advertisements).

https://www.mrfdev.com/privacy

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I have 0 telemetry in the extension or anywhere, for that matter. There's no privacy concerns to begin with, but if their word is far more valuable to you than not having any privacy concerns at all then good for you, and if their software is better for you then good for you too. The objective is for us to have the better experience on YouTube, be it with this extension or another, it is your choice to make every single time.

However, I will not allow any further lies claiming that I intend to place malicious "crap" to the users of this extension when I have been crystal clear about this even before it has been integrated and explained exactly everything that I intend to do.

If more users want to create a new account just to say that they are no longer using this extension, don't, this issue is not for your farewells.

[ParticleCore]

@jackblk Please read the first post and the indexed replies, the alternatives you suggested have already been discussed and explained why they aren't viable. This option is also going to be optional, the user will have to enable it for it to work, it will not be on by default.

[jackblk]

@ParticleCore Thanks for the reply. Sorry for not reading them all, I just read few of them, so bear with me :P.

After reading more, I think I'm supportive for your choice, but there will be people not understanding. I hope you a nice day :D.

[IMNdi]

Passing thought.

I think Patreon allows for a per-delivery payment, so one can pay $1 or $2 every X months and group it. For example, you could set up a per-delivery payment of $1 and deliver yearly or something.

Patreon takes 5%, so with transaction fees it's like 70-80 cents to a dollar.

It's up to you to decide if you want to go insta-cash or pledge and then get yearly infusion based on accumulated good will. Depends on the frequency of updates and the amount of bugfixes, I guess. Happier customers are more likely to pledge and leave it on (delayed payment) IMO whereas instant-pay protects against people changing their minds.

[ParticleCore]

@IMNdi Thanks for the suggestion, but the problem with that is that almost no one has Patreon or are willing to or have the possibility to send money. This option would allow those users that want to contribute, but can't.

[ParticleCore]

Posting an update to the scheduled start of the trial run, I might go forward with it before October 1st, maybe tomorrow or September 30th, I want to have more free time on the weekend to dedicate to bug fixes and other issues I found during this integration.

[nick-s-b]

Coin miner? That's malware. Time to fork this script.

[Zekken01]

@nick-s-b

Pretty sure that you're wrong. Anyways it is going to be opt-in.

[ParticleCore]

@nick-s-b

Malware:

Malware is an abbreviated term meaning “malicious software.” This is software that is specifically designed to gain access or damage a computer without the knowledge of the owner. There are various types of malware including spyware, keyloggers, true viruses, worms, or any type of malicious code that infiltrates a computer.

https://us.norton.com/internetsecurity-malware.html

If any other users want to keep trying to drive this discussion to the malware path, you showed that you are not only not interested in this discussion at all, but you are trying to spread fear-mongering through lies, and like I said before, I will not allow that any longer.

Coin miner? That's malware. Time to fork this script.

Good bye and say hello to all the other forks that have already been made before and after this issue was opened: https://github.com/ParticleCore/Iridium/network/members

Just remember to respect the license, otherwise I'll have to request take down.

[ParticleCore]

This feature has been implemented in version 0.3.1b

For feedback related to this feature please use this thread from now on: #198

[ParticleCore]

Locked by mistake, apologies.

[VincentW2]

This is just a though from an outsider. I don't really imagine a person with a Pentium 4 or a pretty old AMD chip to be using this extension, and even if, this is an opt-in feature. Personally, I would be fine if this is the future of supporting devs like yourself. I am also happy about a developer being so transparent about this type of thing. It's crazy people still get mad over it. Ads are old news, and donations are not guaranteed. Good luck in the future.

[ParticleCore]

@VinLark You are right, that's why I even warn users that if they still feel the performance lacking with the lowest settings they should turn it off. This wasn't added to make their experience worse, the opposite of that supersedes the trial/feature itself.

ATTENTION Do not turn this on if:

• You are on a mobile device (i.e. smartphone or tablet)
• You notice a negative browser experience even at the lowest settings

https://github.com/ParticleCore/Iridium/wiki/Features#miner

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate them.

[HyphenSam]

I have a beefy computer so I don't mind using my PC to help out.
Right now I have it set up so it uses 10% mining speed over 12 threads, and I'm only experiencing 25-30% of CPU usage. So far I haven't run into any issues.

[ParticleCore]

@HyphenSam glad to hear that, but for that specific feedback I've already opened a dedicated issue just for that here #198

[HyphenSam]

Ah sorry, I thought that issue was only specifically for people who are experiencing problems, and not general thoughts like my comment. I'll be sure to post there in the future.

[Tharn]

I don't think a coin miner has any place in a browser extension. I want my browser to be fast and efficient, coin mining is anathema to that idea. It wastes CPU and battery, increases temperatures and may produce slowdown. IMO if people want to help, they can donate. You may give them several effortless options for donations to reach the biggest possible audience.

Mining, telemetry etc. are both ways to monetize a thing beyond what I'd consider a reasonable median, and a browser extension is not a stand-alone program worth a lot of money but a cog in the machine that's first and foremost supposed to work efficiently and without a fuss. Imagine if the flash plugin, built-in pdf reader or popular browser themes all started running their own schemes to siphon CPU cycles. Horrible!

I sympathize with your desire to make money off the work you put into the extension, but I would strongly recommend to rip the mining/telemetry part of the code out as soon as the trial run is over and return to traditional methods of monetization.

On the positive side: Your extension is one of the best, if not the best YouTube settings extension out there. If I'd want any extension to be financially feasible, it would be this one. You may consider a 'splash screen' on first startup that asks the user to donate. I would consider that benign.

[ParticleCore]

@Tharn it is optional and turned off by default, if the user does not want to use it he is not forced to, there are no features blocked until mining is enabled. The extension is exactly the same with the exception of the "welcome" screen and the existence of such option.
Also the idea of telemetry is on hold, at least for the duration of this trial run. I don't want to rush on that one, it is not something I am very inclined to integrate.

[ghost]

@ParticleCore, you might want to edit the issue to reflect that. Currently it says:

initially this will be enabled by default

[ParticleCore]

@TsuTsuKaKushi Please read the full issue, especially the second edit notes, not just the first paragraph:

• This feature will be opt-in

[Hegezcc]

@Deranox I understand that. But I am 90% sure that nobody will start making a project so big and great like this. In the history of open source mods for proprietary code there are lots of stories about someone making things in their free time, but then stopping at the top for lack of motivation. Money is a great motivator, but who will pay $25/hr for improving this add-on continuously? Nobody is the one for that, but maybe thousands of fans would pay a few bucks for month via service like Patreon. That would make a pay of a reasonable full-time job. And the best people in IT have always started it as a hobby.

Who would be the best person to be that coder? I think that the original dev has proved their skill and knowledge here.

[jcdenton2k]

Or I'll just fork Iridium, change the name, and work alongside some other devs I know to improve/maintain it. Your license is pretty crap (you could easily just use a Creative Commons or GPL-compatible license) and doesn't protect you or your users from abuse by others.

If you are unable/unwilling to maintain the codebase then it may be useful to just open-source it and permit GPL-based rights such as reuse, modification, etc.

I've poked through the code and I'm thinking I could probably write up something better. If I'm motivated by money to be compensated for my time then I'll throw up a Patreon and have at it. If not, then I'll do a one-time crowdfunding and then only start up Patreon to handle maintenance after the first year.

[ParticleCore]

Or I'll just fork Iridium, change the name, and work alongside some other devs I know to improve/maintain it. Your license is pretty crap (you could easily just use a Creative Commons or GPL-compatible license) and doesn't protect you or your users from abuse by others.

If you are unable/unwilling to maintain the codebase then it may be useful to just open-source it and permit GPL-based rights such as reuse, modification, etc.

I've poked through the code and I'm thinking I could probably write up something better. If I'm motivated by money to be compensated for my time then I'll throw up a Patreon and have at it. If not, then I'll do a one-time crowdfunding and then only start up Patreon to handle maintenance after the first year.

As long as the license is respected, I wish you good luck.