Remove/fix levels not properly working anymore

[Quintus]

SMC ships with some levels that appearently weren’t designed to work with the current version. Some have 1px off errors, some seem to miss graphics. I’ve not played them all, but those levels that are not properly playable anymore should either be fixed or removed from SMC. For those contained in the official worlds, fixing should be favoured over removal.

Vale,
Quintus

[datahead8888]

For any levels that have to be removed, we'd want to make sure we note their names (in one place) so that they can be fixed by someone later. This might end up having crossovers with the effort in issue #56. Many of the old, gathered levels may be broken, too.

I agree that we'd want to try to keep official world levels working. Do you know what kinds of programming changes may be causing some of those levels to break? Is it possible to adjust any of the code changes so as to not break them, or are these just cases where the levels really need to change (I would think this is probably what we're running into)?

[DarkAceZ]

I'll probably fix all the main levels of the game up when I get around to doing stuff. Preferably when I create a new world for SMC 2.0 or/and when I spice up some of the current levels by adding some scripting to them. I guess the original level authors won't mind me messing with their work a little bit...

[Quintus]

@DarkAceZ, we should probably redesign lvl_1, though not for it’s difficulty. In mrvertigo’s friend’s video, one of the first comments is "oh, this is like Mario" or something similar. We want to phase out such an impression I think.

Vale,
Quintus

[datahead8888]

 In mrvertigo’s friend’s video, one of the first comments is "oh, this is like Mario" or something similar. We want to phase out such an impression I think.

@Quintus, what do you think is causing this impression in the level? I have no problem with changing the level to be less Mario like (if there are similarities we really want to root them out), but I had originally assumed he said that because of the Mario style title music and the spinning block sprites.

[Quintus]

That may be the case, but I would also blame background image and background music used by lvl1. They both quite closely resemble original Mario.

Vale,
Quintus

[datahead8888]

We could temporarily change the music for level 1 for now, but long term we'll have to find a permanent replacement for it across all the levels (which of course is covered by the github task you just opened).

The background images are something that needs to be discussed across the entire game. Having hills with eyes and colored blocks with screws on the corners are directly from Mario games. I'm not saying we can't have faces or eyes on scenery, but we need to start thinking about a distinctive SMC style that can be incorporated throughout the game.

We also desperately need an alternative to the pipe graphics. Suction tubes that are currently used in the real world to transport items have been discussed in the forums...we need to locate that discussion.

One of the reasons SMB3 is so good is the art style. SMC needs its own.

[Quintus]

Suction tubes that are currently used in the real world to transport items

Do you have an image for me or so? I’m no native English speaker and have never heard this term... Wikipedia suggests this one but I have difficulties imagining item transport with it.

Vale,
Quintus

[brianvanderburg2]

Banks often use some for of suction tubes at the drive-thru to move the container containing money, deposit slips, etc. Also, Sonic the Hedgehog for Sega had some tubes that may resemble suction tubes.

[datahead8888]

@brianvanderburg2 is correct. I found it - pneumatic tubes.
Discussion - http://www.secretmaryo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=754&p=3705&hilit=tubes#p3705
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube#Pneumatic_tubes_in_fiction

This wiki entry (by someone who just posted above!) has some other ideas for pipe replacements, amongst other Nintendo replacement discussion - http://www.secretmaryo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=952&p=4953&hilit=pipes#p4953

It's also worth noting that the game, "Flappy Bird" was criticized for using graphics that looked a lot like Mario pipes. Nintendo publicly said they didn't have any real problem, but it is a case in point. The game was "mysteriously" removed from the app store for iPhone, as I remember it.

[ghost]

@Quintus If with falling platforms, you meant the defect at the ending at flippa_3, that's not what I meant.
I meant, only the background gradient is visible.
EDIT: That's what I get when loading flippa3_ending, so I take it as the level file is broke.

[ghost]

Another thing: All levels beginning with test_ could be deleted.
Alternative to deleting: Put in another sub folder or insert a tag, that makes them only visible in debug mode.

And tut1_1, which isn't the tutorial, but something non-complete.

[ghost]

@DarkAceZ Mind, if I polish sauer2_7 and furball_hills?

[Quintus]

@sauer2 I was referring to the end of the game_tutorial level which you mentioned to be unpassable. I just tested it, and the green pipe at the end of the game tutorial definitely works.

The flippa_3_ending level is broken somehow. However, the level is meant to be a very loooooooong falling down passage. If you look closely, you will find there’s a level exit (just press the "end" key on your keyboard) and if you go from the final door straight upwards a long time, you will come over Maryo. It just appears that the background is broken and that the start is out of the level area. So yes, this level is definitely broken and needs to be fixed.

Vale,
Quintus

[DarkAceZ]

@sauer2 Sure, I haven't gotten that far. I'll keep in mind to not make any changes to them until I get yours.

[ghost]

@Quintus The pipe is not my problem. I just can't jump that high to reach the platform, even when keeping jump (and action) pressed.
Action(running) + Jump combined works.
Duckjumping works.
However, combining action and duckjumping to jump even higher doesn't.
I simply can't jump from ducking while pressing action. Maybe it's some keyboard/SDL issue, but I tested different keys for action (a and CTRL).

@DarkAceZ Thanks.

[ghost]

There is also that map called 'empty', it's empty. Does it have a special purpose?

[Quintus]

There is also that map called 'empty', it's empty. Does it have a special purpose?

It’s a very minimal level used to quicktesting newly added features such as enemies. It isn’t relevant for players, and can quickly be created from scratch if needed by developers, so we can remove it as well.

Also, @sauer2, I have played the tutorial again. It works.

Proof:

I made a video

∎

[DarkAceZ]

I don't know what, but I think there's something really strange with your build, @sauer2... I've never heard of such strange bugs that you're reporting. Are you the only Windows user that's been playing the most recent builds, and the Windows build is horribly broken, perhaps?

[ghost]

@Quintus I believe you, no need to make a video proof. I can't for the life jump that high. Weird.
@DarkAceZ It seems so, maybe that's the price for using a cross compiled nightly. Unfortunately, using a different OS isn't an option for me at the moment.

[Quintus]

Hmmmmm... May indeed be a Windows problem. I will have to look into that.

[ghost]

@Quintus That would be great.
Please also have a look at this on_activation event problem from http://smc.quintilianus.eu/viewtopic.php?id=48 before creating a new build.

[ghost]

@DarkAceZ Here is an improved version of sauer2_7.
Balancing enemies, fixing map size.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-9113375/sauer2_7.smclvl.html

However, scripting is not included, as I can't use on_activation and platforms are not implemented at the moment. I might come back to you about this.

[ghost]

@Quintus A quick fix for flippa_3:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-9113444/flippa_3_ending.smclvl.html
However, with all the pipes, it's questionable in long terms.

[ghost]

@DarkAceZ A new version of furball_hills, using scripting to spawn enemies when collecting the red coin in the coin pits.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-9114114/furball_hills.smclvl.html

[ghost]

@Quintus: Given, you mean desert_ruins in the second quote:
I'm on it.

[Quintus]

Given, you mean desert_ruins in the second quote:

Ooops. Yes, of course.

Vale,
Quintus

[ghost]

OK, here is the rest:

• sauer2_3: really inbalanced, removed rocket dudes, most of the spikeballs and retimed falling platforms
• sauer2_4: ok
• sauer2_5: ok
• sauer2_6: again, removed spikeballs. @Quintus This level relies on vertical rocket dudes and it turns out it still uses the horizontal editor box and a wrong collision box.
• sauer2_7: ok
• sauer2_7_boss: ok
• sauer2_8: ok, but relies on vertical rocket dudes
• sauer2_9: removed rocket dude
• sauer2_nolin: changed old-style powerup
• sauer2_nolin_sub: ok
• under_construction: fixed a missing image warning

@Quintus The fixes are in the same forum thread as sauer2_11. Please upload.

[Quintus]

Levels still untested:

• allen_1
• all
• david_1
• dj_kirby_1_sub
• dj_kirby_1
• eatomania
• empty
• flan
• All the flippa levels (@DarkAceZ?)
• frosty_climber
• game_tutorial
• The lvl levels
• menu_blue_1
• menu_green_1
• night_sky
• old_lvl_1_sub
• old_lvl_1
• pasol_1
• pasol_2
• pasol_3
• runaway
• scaley
• space
• speed_test
• The stephan levels
• undergroundsurprise
• underground

Please continue with your work, we’ll get through this :-). I will now take on the levels allen1 - flan.

Valete,
Quintus

[ghost]

I could check these:

• runaway
• scaley
• space
• speed_test
• The |stephan| levels
• undergroundsurprise
• underground

[DarkAceZ]

I think desert_ruins is fine. The music fits quite nicely, too (but it's a nice track in general).
dj_kirby needs quite a lot of changes, which I'm working on. I already cleaned up the sublevel.

I will now take on the levels allen1 - flan.

I've already looked through and edited levels A - D...

[DarkAceZ]

empty is just that - an empty level, aside from some ground tiles. Could very well be removed.

[ghost]

Results so far:

• runaway: Boring one-block type level, gameplay not appealing as
  well. Ripe for removal.
• scaley: Nice & hard, but pretty thrown together enemies, your
  opinion would be appreciated!
• space: It's a nice concept in theory, but I don't think it is
  actually playable, so I pledge for removal. One might pick up that
  idea another time.
• speed_test: It's a speed test for armadillos. Can be removed. Test
  levels should probably not be included in releases anyway.
• undergroundsurprise & underground: Great, although it relies much on
  pipes. Is that a marioism if the count is that high?

stephan levels still pending....

[datahead8888]

undergroundsurprise & underground: Great, although it relies much on pipes. Is that a marioism if the count is that high?

I don't see anything wrong with keeping a level with a lot of pipes. We will eventually have other pipe replacements. If the level is good (I can't check now), I'd like to keep it.

Are we keeping tower_1? It's one of the few I took a good look at a bit back; I can't really help too much now with level testing. I just wanted to confirm the decision. I agree with sauer2 about this level, but if some of our devs like it, maybe we should keep it.

[ghost]

undergroundsurprise & underground: Great, although it relies much
on pipes. Is that a marioism if the count is that high?

I don't see anything wrong with keeping a level with a lot of pipes.
We will eventually have other pipe replacements. If the level is good
(I can't check now), I'd like to keep it.

It's good.

stephane_1: OK.

stephan_1-n: Mostly ok, but pretty boring to play. May require some
visual fixes, not sure if it's worth the effort.

I also noticed some bugs when playing the stephan series:

When getting from stephan_4 to 4.1 while being big, you can get stuck.
The start point looks ok, though.

Getting from 5.1 to 5.2 somehow disables falling to death.

Also, I get a lot of

Error loading image : /home/clemens/tsc_done/share/tsc/pixmaps
Reason : Unsupported image format

Should I be worried?

[DarkAceZ]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22806246/TSC/levels/levels%20A%20-%20D.tar.gz
Levels A thru D, refined.

Might want to consider removing all and empty from the official level list. They're useless.

[DarkAceZ]

Currently, game_tutorial is the level opened when selecting the campaign "Tutorial". I think the level is great, but for someone who has just installed TSC for the first time and fires up that campaign, it might be a little too hard for them...
Didn't @Quintus make a new tutorial level a while back?

[DarkAceZ]

allen_1: Overly difficult and poorly designed in some areas. Could probably be removed. (I did not fix this one up.

[DarkAceZ]

all useless, remove
allen_1 overly difficult and poorly designed in some areas. Could probably be removed.
bad_evening OK
cave_1, cave_1_2 fixed up
cave_1b OK
clear_night OK
david_1 fixed up
desert_break_in fix some z and other background issues
dj_kirby_1, dj_kirby_1_sub fixed up, but dj_kirby_1 has a slight issue with its script. I've had enemies jump up a slope in one place, but I wasn't able to figure out how to not make moving army shells not jump... :-P So you will have a hopping shell if you throw one there, and it's not unlikely that you will. Maybe someone can help me with this.
eatomania fixed up
empty useless, remove
flan short, but OK
flippa_2 fixed up
flippa_3 fixed up
flippa_3_desert fixed up
flippa_3_ending fixed up
flippa_3_green fixed up
flippa_3_mushroom fixed up
flippa_3_sky OK
frosty_climber fixed up
furball_hills already done by @sauer2
game_tutorial rather hard for a new player's first level...

Updated pack, levels 'A' through 'F': https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22806246/TSC/levels/levels%20A%20-%20F.tar.gz

I believe we're about done here, then.

[datahead8888]

Didn't @Quintus make a new tutorial level a while back?

sauer2 made the new tutorial level. We've been talking about changing the engine so that we can define script events so that falling in lava does not kill Alex in this level. I think it's better to leave the lava pits as is for now so that we can fix this in a later release without giving up our new tutorial level.

[datahead8888]

Something else we might do is double check to make sure all menu levels can be exited in one way or another.

[Quintus]

My findings of the last untested levels:

• night_sky: Playable, though not exciting. Misses decoration.
• menu_blue_1: Misses exit, I’ll fix that
• menu_green_1: Misses exit, I’ll fix that
• old_lvl_1: Broken pipe exit, I’ll fix that
• lvl_1: <3 Orrm, I made that myself...
• lvl_2: ok
• lvl_3: ok
• lvl_4: ok
• lvl_5: ok
• lvl_6: ok
• lvl_7: ok
• lvl_8: ok
• lvl_9: ok
• lvl_10: ok
• pasol_1: hard, but ok
• pasol_2: That’s exactly the right type of level to get @sauer2 up to working temperature :-). I say this should be removed.
• pasol_3: ok

And that’s it. I’ll fix what I described above, then we’re done.

Vale,
Quintus

[Quintus]

Aaaaaand, hey! We are done. All levels tested. All levels that are now still in the game are not broken and are finishable. They may not all be excitingly great, but they are playable and not outstandingly poor. Improvements to levels are of course always accept anyway, but now I close this issue. ❤️

Valete,
Quintus

[ghost]

@Quintus : What about the bugs described in #59 (comment) ?
Are they considered a non-blocker for 2.0.0?

[Quintus]

Level improvements can be done anytime, they’re no blocking issues; the important thing was that all levels are finishable.

Error loading image : /home/clemens/tsc_done/share/tsc/pixmaps Reason : Unsupported image format

Can you point me to a level where that happens so I can take a look at it?

Getting from 5.1 to 5.2 somehow disables falling to death.

This is an issue on its own... I have seen something similar, but have not yet nailed it down to a reproduction guide that always works.

Vale,
Quintus

[ghost]

Error loading image : /home/clemens/tsc_done/share/tsc/pixmaps
Reason : Unsupported image format

Can you point me to a level where that happens so I can take a look at it?

It's in 5.2. I discovered that when I checked the command line for
errors regarding the falling issue.

[Quintus]

It's in 5.2. I discovered that when I checked the command line for errors regarding the falling issue.

I don’t get these messages for stephan_5_2. Try deleting ~/.cache/tsc and then try again. Maybe related to the recent commits that moved graphics around.

Vale,
Quintus

[ghost]

It's in 5.2. I discovered that when I checked the command line for
errors regarding the falling issue.

I don’t get these messages for |stephan_5_2|. Try deleting
|~/.cache/tsc| and then try again. Maybe related to the recent commits
that moved graphics around.

That seems likely, but I can't test it now.