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2008 07 21 Fats John Barkhausen + Ray Peat (summary)

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####2008-07-21 Fats - John Barkhausen + Ray Peat

Articles

Abbreviations

####00m00s JB: Start

  • station intro

####01m00s RP: Intro

  • RP background
  • was humanities person first, studying art and literature
  • read a lot about science in general
  • first teaching job was to teach biology in ohio state
  • 1968 back to grad school to study biology
  • found institutions are anti-educational: prepare people to conform and find a job
  • by the time of grad school RP learned how to be quiet enough to get a degree
  • grad school is exercise in conformism, example:
  • 1960s oregon state physiologist study via MAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Analogies_Test
  • MAT test is a proxy to creativity of students
  • found that "average MAT" students became "straight A" grad students
  • while below/above MAT average test were poor grad students
  • 04m30s
  • RP got phd in biology in 1972, with more biochemistry then biology courses
  • taught in UofO, UofM
  • 1981 stated "ray peat news letter" after being rejected by mainstream journals
  • 06m30s
  • too much politics in science
  • first RP teaching course "biology for physics majors"
  • included information technology and radiation biology
  • government information on the safety of radioactive fall out became focus
  • trustees got concerned with politics and fired RP
  • 09m00s
  • JB: you recommend http://www.amazon.com/The-cold-biology-Carl-Lindegren/dp/B0006BOXOM
  • RP: that book is intro to politics of genetics

####09m40s JB: Fats

  • the topic is fats
  • new government recommendation about fats every 5 years

####10m40s RP: Fats

  • long history of vegetable oils
  • Mark Twain story in 1860s about initiative to switch america to cotton seed oil instead of butter (Life on the Mississippi (1883), chapter 39)
  • 11m30s
  • JB: story about diluting imported olive oil with cotton seed oil 1:10 ratio
  • RP: in 1998 FDA did imported olive oil survey, 70% of it was still adulterated with other oils

####12m00s JB: History

  • lets start with history of human fat consumption

####12m15s RP: History

  • in 19 century my relatives were still preferring fat meat
  • people did not use extracted oils
  • people used natural sources of fat: coconut, avocado, sunflower seeds, fat beef, fat pork, fat poultry
  • in 18 century industrial market started promoting cod liver oil, some seed oil
  • but even fish oil was used for warmish and lamps right till time of cheap petroleum oil
  • coconut oil was easy to produce with primitive technology: boil coco meat and skim the oil
  • coconut oil was cheap in the US; used as animal feed and for cooking; does not get rancid
  • 1940s agriculture industry found that coconut oil was stimulating animal appetite: eat more food, gain less weight - no good for business
  • they tried to find poison to slow metabolic rate by poisoning the thyroid gland
  • they found that by using fish oil and seed oil they could slow metabolic rate and grow more fat
  • now seed oil industry got good market in feeding pigs
  • around 1950 petroleum chemistry learns to produce paint, and displacing fish/seed oil
  • that was the start of promotion of seed/fish oil as efa idea by the seed/fish oil industry

####17m00s RP: EFA Study

  • there was a study cited for many decades taken from the lard industry by seed oil industry
  • http://www.jbc.org/content/86/2/587.full.pdf+html
  • http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=18162
  • 1929 study claimed pufa to be efa, but was very unscientific
  • the study demonstrated on a surface the animals died on a fat-free diet
  • but in 1910...1920 there were studies which shown animals healthier with fat-full diet
  • 19m20s
  • JB: but so many people say these pufa are efa?
  • RP: university of texas nutrition lab under http://bioinst.cm.utexas.edu/williams/
  • 1940s rojer williams reproduced the 1929 pufa/efa study and proved it was b6 not efa deficiency
  • proper interpretation of 1929 study: 1) pufa suppresses metabolic rate 2) when suppressed, you do not eat or drink as much 3) you do not need as much b6
  • but if you remove pufa, you discover that you need b6 sooner
  • 22m00s
  • JB: so b6 deficiency is blamed on efa deficiency?
  • RP: 1950s 1960s some isolated studies would claim efa are essential based on intravenous feeding
  • but intravenous feeding became fully nutritional only in 1970s
  • so previous to 1970s intravenous feeding were deficient in many things, like zinc
  • at the time doctors would not give zinc, it was "nutritionist thing" to do
  • 24m35s
  • JB: nutritional advice about efa is very confusing?
  • RP: you can "cure" b6 deficiency with efa poison short term
  • example: fish oil can suppress inflammation, but it works by suppressing the immune system
  • published in research of efa advocate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horrobin
  • you can survive for 1...2 years with suppressing your immune system; bad long term
  • 26m15s
  • JB: fish oil is used to fight depression?
  • RP: some publications say it makes it worse or makes nothing
  • there is a bias in studies reported by journals
  • they publish studies which show 5% benefit and suppress ones that show 50% detriment
  • 27m27s
  • quote by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Angell
  • "you can not know the truth of studies published, unless you read the studies rejected"

####28m00s JB: Types of Fats

  • good vs bad fats?

####28m20s RP: Role of PUFA

  • rapeseed/canola oil story
  • in 1960s was a concern about toxicity of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erucic_acid
  • so they bread special kind of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola#Canola_oil
  • experiments on death of heart tissue from canola oil by HS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Selye
  • were explained in mainstream as toxicity of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erucic_acid
  • but when HS used pure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid and demonstrated that it was the actual harmful agent for heart cells
  • and when HS used chocolate fat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_butter it was protective for heart cells
  • so efa in general are actually toxic, and acted against by saturated fats
  • and efa/saturated fat ratio is important
  • 30m10s
  • role of saturated fat: coconut oil rat study
  • experiment: have groups of rats on different types of fats and on different fat content
  • so "fat rats" were produced by unsaturated fats diet
  • so "lean rats" were produced by saturated fats diet
  • and most important factor was the degree of unsaturation of the fat, high-fat/low-fat is non issue
  • 31m30s
  • 1980s french study of pig farming demonstrated biochemistry of the fats
  • they used specific fatty acids on animals, and examined influence on thyroid system
  • found that saturation is key factor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_(chemistry)
  • result: 1 unsat bond is bad, 2 unsat bond is worse, 3 unsat bond is really bad
  • every component of thyroid system: gland secretion, blood transport, cell response is affected by pufa
  • JB: so feeding pigs wile suppressing metabolism would make them fat? RP: yes.

####33m20s JB: Thyroid Function

  • give us brief summary of thyroid function?

####33m30s RP: Thyroid Hormones

####39m45s JB: Role of EFA

  • so efa not really essential?
  • they are present in all food?
  • how can you get away from them?

####40m15s RP: EFA is poison

  • achievement of marketing: how can you be deficient in something that present everywhere?
  • example: coconut oil has 2% of efa/pufa
  • ruminants detoxify efa/pufa with own bacteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruminant
  • example: beef/lamb ruminant fat has 2% of efa/pufa
  • you have to eat special lab-made diet to be really efa deficient
  • so the idea of efa as essential is a result of marketing
  • 42m00s
  • studies show: increase in pufa leads to increase in cancer rates
  • 42m40s
  • JB: and fish oils?
  • RP: few years back fda warned total dha/epa must be under 3g per day
  • but after that fda started promoting dha/epa
  • dha/epa are immune system suppresors
  • fish oils are so unstable they oxidize at room temperature, even more so at body temperature
  • fish oils oxidize even before they reach your blood stream
  • so "beneficial anti-inflammatory effects" are result of oil oxidation products being toxic
  • very small part of fish oils reach your cells as original dha/epa

####45m00s JB: Marketing

  • role of marketing?
  • role of saturated fats?

####45m35s RP: Marketing

  • looks like industry taken over the government
  • fda web site is a promotion for fish oils
  • fish/seed oils industry subsidies research and conferences which says pufa are good for you
  • this is the same as atomic industry controlling the research on the safety or radiation

####47m10s JB: Cancer

  • fish oils and cancer?

####47m20s RP: Cancer

  • fish oils are "better" then seed oils in a sense that
  • seed oils 18-carbon oil blocks human enzyme systems
  • fish oils are longer chain, do not block directly, but more unstable
  • also fish oils have vitamins in them: vit a d e k
  • vit e is oxidized soon, vit a and d is more stable and is absorbed

####49m00s JB: Good Diet

  • what is good diet?

####49m15s RP: Good Diet

  • olive oil is ok 1 tsp a day - ok as small part of diet
  • butter, beef fat, cocoa butter, coconut oil - ok as major part of diet
  • longer saturated fats are protective
  • example: study of butter for liver disease / alcoholism in india
  • example: study in chicago of protective role of saturated fat
  • 51m40s
  • JB: long chain - you mean coconut oil?
  • RP: coconut oil has up to 16C, butter is 18C, they use longer experimental fats
  • 52m10s
  • JB: pufa are now everywhere, how can you eat
  • RP: 15 years back was a campaign to remove coconut oil from the market, but now it is back
  • 53m20s
  • JB: but butter makes you fat?
  • RP: animals studies show that pufa make you fat
  • example: finland eats lots of diary fats, people are lean and healthy
  • example: russia eats lots of grain/vegetable (pufa) foods, people are fat and sick
  • example: americans who eat milk products are lean; partially due to calcium and vit d; partially due to sat fats
  • 54m45s
  • JB: french paradox: they eat so much sat fat but they are lean?
  • RP: yes :-)
  • 55m00s
  • JB: we are done, final words?
  • RP: skin and oils health
  • experiment: shaved rabbits on different diets exposed to the sun; result: sat fat -> no skin damage while pufa -> dried and wrinkled skin

####55m55s JB: Finish

  • ray peat web site

Ray Peat Interview Project - Text is available under the [Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License)

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