[3.2] Commander Keen has no Pogostick spriteset

[Tormentor667]

From CaptainJ:

I can see Keen's death animation in third person but not the pogostick one.

[AFADoomer]

The sprites are there (rear view only), and this used to work... He also has dedicated jumping/falling sprites. Not sure what has changed.

EDIT: Plus pogostick is off in that screenshot...

[Tormentor667]

Just tested it, it works indeed. I'd point @DoomJedi to this though for the other sprites considering the coop plan that we have for a possible 3.2 version.

[DoomJedi]

Most of BoA keen sprites were made by Nisaba and Keen community spriters, we better ask them for a bit more help.

Regarding coop I still didnt hear solutions for 1dir Bosses and enemies like grenadeers, rpg guys etc.

[AFADoomer]

Agreed. The current pogo sprites were frankensprited by me from the Keen 1 pogostick and various other Keen sprites.

[Tormentor667]

Most of BoA keen sprites were made by Nisaba and Keen community spriters, we better ask them for a bit more help.

Can you get in touch with them once more?

Regarding coop I still didnt hear solutions for 1dir Bosses and enemies like grenadeers, rpg guys etc.

This is a different topic but I am pretty sure we will find a solution that for that as well. I just thought about a way to modify the one-sided sprites to make the player understand where the enemy is facing, maybe with a sprite overlay on the ground, with a pointer for the actual direction.

[DoomJedi]

I have no problem asking Keen forum for more help, but can you sum up the sprites needed? Pogo rotations, anything else? Jumping, Falling....basically all Keen sprites fully rotated?

[Tormentor667]

We have most of it, afaik we only need the pogo sprites that we currently have in all directions. Maybe @Ozymandias81 can do the usual magic?

[DoomJedi]

I'll post on Keen forum.
If they won't help - as you know - I'm ready the be Plan B for stuff they won't supply for any reason.

[Tormentor667]

So has anything appeared on the Keen forums yet?

[DoomJedi]

Nope...

[Tormentor667]

Link for reference: https://pckf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10416&start=30

[Tormentor667]

Nisaba is working on it but it will take a while as she has other things to do atm.

[Ozymandias81]

Just replied today with 3.1 link and tease for 3.2 🆒

[Tormentor667]

Pushed: https://pckf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10416&p=101037#p101037

[Tormentor667]

Pushed again: https://pckf.com/viewtopic.php?p=102629#p102629

[Username-N00b-is-not-available]

Looks like we'll need DoomJedi's help here, if he has time.

[Tormentor667]

@DoomJedi summoning :)

[DoomJedi]

Where am I? What am I doing here? Who summoned me? :-O

...love having you back N00b! How are you, pal? (have been following your recent return and burst of activity and contribution, keep it up!)
You can always talk to me over russian Doom forum (I see you read my last PM eventually)

I'll need to see about that old pending task.
Will fetch origin now to see what's missing. Didn't make any art for many months now, since GZDoom Batman mod got released.

...CaptainJ might be an option as well, fantastic spriter and helped before (?) Or does he prefer Doom art?

[DoomJedi]

I see Keen front shooting frames are very inconsistent and even not evident and need total remake as well.

Well...let's see.
Tomorrow is a busy day (country's Independence Day, guests, barbecue) not sure I'll get anything done, but after that I have some free days and can look at it.

[DoomJedi]

All Keen rotation frames need remake actually, now looking at it.

[Username-N00b-is-not-available]

Hello, @DoomJedi! Nice to meet you again, too! I'm (mostly..?) fine, just had too big of a workload in my institute, now I have time for a small break (and a larger one later in the summer). I hope my recent contributions made the re-release date closer, i. e. I introduced fewer bugs than fixed :-)
As for the sprites, they can wait, of course. If you don't want to fix them yourself (too much time), you can try to explain me what in your opinion is wrong with them, and I'll try to implement your guidelines. Concerning the old PM on RDC, I've translated most of the remaining strings up to date, only a few unimplemented menu options remain that refer to... well, I do not know what.
Congratulations on the holiday!

---

By the way, what do you think of #1300 point 2? I sure as hell am not inviting you to do another 7000 'hitmap' sprites; this should be done via automated tools, or only for specific enemies. Asking you as a modder and a player, not a spriter :-)

[DoomJedi]

...... If you don't want to fix them yourself (too much time), you can try to explain me what in your opinion is wrong with them, and I'll try to implement your guidelines.

I appreciate the offer (already did now new standing rotations frames BTW).
I'll see what I can do (it's a big workload indeed), and I always give you guidelines about the rest.
About what's wrong - take into account that side shooting frames are the true ones from the game and the rest need to be pose consistent with those and generally readable visually.
Shooting rotations are a wrong pose (just as Pogo lower frame) and in front frames - those are not readable as shooting frames - the gun is not visible/visually readable as such, hand is too "centered to the body" which makes it less readable as well. First rotation in just not readable pose wise and direction/perspective-wise.

Congratulations on the holiday!
Thanks! :)

By the way, what do you think of #1300 point 2? I sure as hell am not inviting you to do another 7000 'hitmap' sprites; this should be done via automated tools, or only for specific enemies. Asking you as a modder and a player, not a spriter :-)

Well, that's a cool feature, I think first we need to make it work with what we already have in the game - it means making actual headshots and not "random-loaded" ones.
One more idea - we can make gibbing trajectory direction (of skeleton bones for example) and general gib sprite inertia to refer to actual part body with hit in - if hit to the left side-gibs will fly mostly to the right etc.

[DoomJedi]

So far did:

standing rotations,
2 walking rotations (rotation 2 and 5),
1 shooting rotation (rotation 1),
1 pogo rotation (rotation 1).

Time to sleep :)

[Tormentor667]

You are a spriting machine :)

[DoomJedi]

Thank you.
While not the same quality as the Blue Bird (rotation accuracy-wise, as I try to reuse existing Keen art "elements" where possible) - I do put attention to animation consistency, perspective consistency and readable poses.

[DoomJedi]

Keen standing, walking, shooting and Pogo rotations:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a6mb21w2pysnxc/Keen%20frames.zip?dl=0

Those need proper renaming, transparency, offset.

I used latest github frames as a task, if there are additional actions/frames used that are beyond what is in
GitHub\WolfenDoom\sprites\misc\easteregg\ckeen\player

You can try give me additional tasks related to those, as I didn't find there frames used for jumping, climbing and such tasks.

[Tormentor667]

Brilliant!

[DoomJedi]

Thank you :) Work of love both for Keen and for this project.

[Ozymandias81]

Will put them on repository as soon as I can, thank you very much @DoomJedi

[DoomJedi]

Will put them on repository as soon as I can, thank you very much @DoomJedi

You are welcome :)

[Ozymandias81]

Alright just put most all of the new frames, we need shooting frames since we have only the first set on your dropbox zip, feel free to come with the second variant whenever you can @DoomJedi

[DoomJedi]

Alright just put most all of the new frames, we need shooting frames since we have only the first set on your dropbox zip, feel free to come with the second variant whenever you can @DoomJedi

Can you explain what is a second variant and why it's needed?
You can put base reference sprite in dropbox subfolder

[Ozymandias81]

Replied on FB chat

[DoomJedi]

Please be patient with me here, I'm just trying to understand Keen shooting frames.

Original Keen game had only 1 shoot frame, as zap itself was a separate sprite.

Doom shooting frames usually have aiming frame, shooting flash flame (sometimes 2 for bullet weapons) and sometimes alert/attack prepare frame.

Can you please will me how many shooting frames we should have and a description of each - which phase of shooting they depict.
I see only E and F shooting frames...so 2 frames?
The second one is just with shooting zap flash added?

[DoomJedi]

Here made "zap" shooting frame as second shooting frame:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dz1z0uwcwv1g5ws/Keen%20Shooting%20Rotations.zip?dl=0

[Ozymandias81]

Done, thanks again @DoomJedi , nice work as usual.