From #php-respect: Train-o-thought dump

[nickl-]

[18:54:26] <augusto_pascutti> bot snack
[18:54:27] <@RespectPanda> nyum nyum, tx augusto_pascutti =)
[18:54:28] <@RespectPanda> augusto_pascutti: 1 day 16 hours ago <nickl_> rp Tell augusto_pascutti it's a learning curve alright == acunote 
[18:54:57] <augusto_pascutti> nickl_, i do agree, it will take some time to get used to the interface... but it works like it should!
[18:55:16] <augusto_pascutti> nickl_, are we going to use acunote instead of Trello?
[18:55:29] <augusto_pascutti> caferrari, hey man! great to see you here!
[18:55:41] <augusto_pascutti> wesleyvicthor, hey hey! how you doing!?
[18:57:28] <caferrari> sup
[18:58:31] <caferrari> I am watching yesterday's hangout
[19:21:09] <wesleyvicthor> augusto_pascutti, I'm ok. working a lot. :/
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[20:17:47] <augusto_pascutti> wesleyvicthor, welcome to the team
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[20:48:33] <@nickl_> augusto_pascutti: evening
[20:49:08] <@nickl_> augusto_pascutti: I like scrum and it is a good system for dispursed teams as well
[20:49:37] <@nickl_> I don't see it as a replacement for trello perse 
[20:50:00] <@nickl_> to start I really just want to try it 
[20:50:10] <@nickl_> see what it does and it looks like fun
[20:50:46] <@nickl_> the github issues don't seem like a suitable way to work through backlog
[20:51:05] <@nickl_> I find myself searching for issues all the time
[20:51:32] <@nickl_> I am hoping to find something that works better than github is all
[20:52:09] <@nickl_> a way to get through the backlog I created for foundation  
[20:53:04] <@nickl_> what I'd also like to accomplish is some sort of team effort for lack of a better word
[20:53:19] <@nickl_> It's nice to see the progress done on Doc
[20:54:01] <@nickl_> but I am left to come through afterwards to follow the breadcrum trail 
[20:55:50] <@nickl_> it would be cool to have physical tickets that we can grab, commit them to a sprint, scrum them with progress and accomplege more 
[20:56:17] <@nickl_> I don't think we have a system that facilitates that
[20:56:33] <@nickl_> -------------------------------- new topic
[20:58:06] <@nickl_> 2. Respect/Foundation: relocate to ~/.foundation and get executable in the path
[20:58:47] <@nickl_> Foundation is arguably not project sentric or the "installation" is not for that matter 
[20:59:27] <@nickl_> by installation I am referring to everything currently in the .foundation folder in the project 
[21:00:38] <@nickl_> As every target checks for the installation I have found this to be tedious and cumbersome when really you just need a bootstray.php or clean some whitespace quick 
[21:00:55] <@nickl_> it first goes and does a complete installation 
[21:01:37] <@nickl_> leaving me with enaugh time on my hands wodering why?, while I wait for it to complete these tasks.
[21:03:40] <@nickl_> For myself, since I have a project folder where I am developing Foundation I can quickly cp from that location to newly service a project folder with the awosomeness that is Foundation and mhich rightfully has become something of a dependency for me
[21:04:02] <@nickl_> I am thinking this process should be made simpler 
[21:04:33] <@nickl_> what is simpler than executing a command say: $ foundation 
[21:05:09] <@nickl_> and wallah I have a Makefile copied from the installation folder ready to get to work
[21:05:17] <@nickl_> thoughts?
[21:05:29] <@nickl_> -------------------------------- new topic
[21:06:22] <@nickl_> 3. Respect/Cache - something to consider or not
[21:08:22] <@nickl_> https://trello.com/c/Y6XcVZR6 - not sure if anyone spotted my ramblings here
[21:09:36] <@nickl_> I'd like to hear if we agree this is something to consider and then lets create the project as I have a base that can serve as a kick off 
[21:11:18] <@nickl_> The urgency is in knowing so that other plans and thinking in general around Cache implimentations for the different projects can start focusing.
[21:11:28] <@nickl_> So think about it and get back to me 
[21:11:49] <@nickl_> -------------------------------- new topic
[21:12:52] <@nickl_> 4. Local CI - don't you think it is strange that we don't have a CI at command line - augustohp
[21:13:24] <@nickl_> Which had started me thinking this is a huge shortcoming indeed 
[21:14:24] <@nickl_> I should be able to easily go $ test with php.5.0.1 
[21:14:47] <@nickl_> and have the results 
[21:15:20] <@nickl_> no matter how long it should take but that it is there close at hand
[21:17:03] <@nickl_> same as with getting a new Makefile why should I go download the source and run configure and make and look for what failed and why only to find that no configure ran happily but we're still waiting for you to tyep make and press return so that we can continue 
[21:17:12] <@nickl_> And then install phpunit
[21:17:19] <@nickl_> and then run the tests 
[21:17:22] <@nickl_> and the....
[21:17:29] <@nickl_> its a shlep
[21:17:40] <@nickl_> agreed?
[21:17:58] <@nickl_> and likely is never going to happen which is a shame 
[21:20:31] <@nickl_> @ augusto_pascutti Now when you mentioned this requirement to what extent were you referring to a CI at command line
[21:21:46] <@nickl_> Are you considering a whole sandboxed vertual machine running and installing everything mailing you or publishing results before it rolls back and destroys everything again
[21:23:03] <@nickl_> Or is it the same requirement I am thinking lets test this in 5.1.2 and leave that my dev environment for now as I continue to explore the issue brought under my attention
[21:23:16] <@nickl_> The latter being more useful I would think
[21:24:09] <@nickl_> -------------------------------- similar topic
[21:24:56] <@nickl_> 5. Fetch and compile php - this is a Foundation requirement
[21:25:54] <@nickl_> Before we look at provisioning VMs like hiphop etc we should at least have our main toolchain under control, right.
[21:26:57] <@nickl_> What is the point that we can install packeages ath packoge managers but we can't manage the most crucial component the php interpreter itself.
[21:27:55] <augusto_pascutti> nickl_, hey man, i will need some time to read things though =P just a couple os mines plz =P
[21:28:53] <augusto_pascutti> 1. we really need something to give us the whole picture. Issues are great for a repository. Not great for organizations. I am willing to try and play with acunote
[21:29:08] <@nickl_> It is not enough to install or just compile one version, I can do that without your help thank you. I would expect you to assist with a more crucial requiremet which is the managing of MULTIPLE VERSIONS OF PHP 
[21:29:52] <@nickl_> augusto_pascutti: I will read you shortly please feel free to continue replying I just want to finish my thought train. anh evening =) 
[21:30:22] <augusto_pascutti> evening! =D
[21:31:06] <@nickl_> CHH's php-build http://chh.github.com/php-build/ used by Travis
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[21:31:43] <@nickl_> Now Travis is lucky that it can't think for itself so we can't blame it really
[21:32:16] <@nickl_> Some of the things I dislike about php-build 
[21:32:30] <@nickl_> - Requires priviledges 
[21:32:47] <@nickl_> - Downloads distributions of source 
[21:33:14] <@nickl_> - To tmp folder which will be purged at restart hello  
[21:34:15] <@nickl_> - Probably geared towards CI re-install and destroy and not really as a development cohabitation onvironment
[21:34:24] <@nickl_> Alternatives ?
[21:35:10] <@nickl_> Into: Humanshell's phpenv - https://github.com/humanshell/phpenv
[21:35:39] <@nickl_> Based on the dislikes of php-build how is this different
[21:36:20] <@nickl_> - Does not require priviledges: it installs and resides in ~/.phpenv 
[21:36:59] <@nickl_> this is where it builds manages maintains shims and serves its purpose
[21:37:39] <@nickl_> - Firs item of pusiness with phpenv is to clone php source repo from github 
[21:38:10] <@nickl_> It builds by branching and resetting to tag the actual repo 
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[21:38:29] <@nickl_> You already have all the versions ewer released
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[21:39:04] <@nickl_> you have the php source where it belongs permanently at your disposal 
[21:39:37] <alganet> wow lots of things to read
[21:40:25] <@nickl_> - The versions you've already built stays there and you can set the active revision for this shell or update the global for for your overall new version
[21:40:57] <alganet> 1. We do have post-its back home, but we rarely uses them. Perhaps having physical copies and syncing some post-its daily would be better. Trello is pretty awesome as well, we just need discipline to fill it daily
[21:41:50] <@nickl_> alganet: =) I've been thinking about these alot and need to get it out so I am finishing the thought train if you don't mind. Continue replying I will catch up here after. Oh yes ad evening to you. 
[21:42:05] <alganet> 2. I personally do prefer using only the Makefile, be explicit about our GNU Make origins. We can stop make the Foundation self-update, or only do that once by day.
[21:42:11] <alganet> evening!
[21:43:08] <alganet> 4. make ci? =D
[21:43:38] <@nickl_> So although phpenv is fairly new (first commit 6 months ago) I've already successfully built 5.3.17 and 5.4.7 
[21:44:20] <@nickl_> Not without modification as moy be expected from building on mac os x for starters and well building php in general but...
[21:44:38] <@nickl_> it's in my home folder so it is welcoming me to have a look 
[21:44:53] <@nickl_> and I don't need to parade as root to do so
[21:45:28] <@nickl_> If the build didn't work I go branch the source myself and see what's troubling it 
[21:45:38] <alganet> awesome!
[21:46:28] <@nickl_> and what a feeling when while you are acking away trying to build the latest release you are informed Upstream ahead by 4 commits while you're at it =)
[21:47:37] <@nickl_> I've been in contact with Dominic "project owner" and he is keen to get help and take this to the next level 
[21:48:29] <@nickl_> So if and when it comes to choosing a platform to surface this requirement I am strongly leaning towards phpenv 
[21:49:01] <@nickl_> Might I add that php-build has yet to successfully complete configure 
[21:49:33] <@nickl_> By the time I return its resources have probably been purged and we'd start from scratch.
[21:50:42] <alganet> lol
[21:51:08] <@nickl_> --------------------------------------------------- new topic 
[21:51:36] <alganet> does the panda logs the IRC?
[21:51:43] <@nickl_> 6. Combititg 2 topics to conclude Github API and pandoc support in Foundation 
[21:52:55] <@nickl_> As part of the testing on what's it called again the scrum service provider / PM tool mentioned in top 1. I was tasked with well creating tasks yor the backlog
[21:53:55] <@nickl_> I hav lots of these tasks on Founndation so via php-github-api or similar name I started pulling it down and collecting a csv that the new service would accept 
[21:54:37] <@nickl_> As part of the content I can transform is a wiki posting which should take the current body of the issue I am working with 
[21:55:22] <@nickl_> Now this task is interesting for one as I have to dig threugh the github api and test everything as I continue 
[21:57:46] <@nickl_> These are standard artifacts which we use everyday but there is quite a difference to clicking on the Issue tab and finding the API adaptor function and which propperties it excepts while building a mapping to the raw JSON object collection and also wondering now why am I only getting poges of 15 back from the results 
[22:00:07] <@nickl_> All fun but after several attempts with addslashes preg_relpace /,|"|\\\/ htmlentities and what not because you see even though mediowiki markup is similar to markdown and is realy not alike at all ather than it both ends up being html redered eventually
[22:00:31] <@nickl_> So I was beating a dead horse 
[22:01:12] <@nickl_> calling the cavalry - I need some help here !!! In comes pandoc to the rescue or so we hope 
[22:01:41] <@nickl_> macports is all upgraded as a result which is one good thing that came from it 
[22:03:14] <@nickl_> I guess you never can have too many aof a good thing either with my 8 versions php 5 python 4 flavours of ruby I now boast twe separate and complete Heskell installations as well  
[22:04:55] <@nickl_> To boot on one of them, need I say not macports, I managed to have pandoc running finally and am about to get ready to see what we can make about getting those medio wiki markups in a compatible format for my new friends
[22:05:07] <@nickl_> This has resulted in uhm... 
[22:07:09] <@nickl_> 25 new untested targets (not including installation - update - version checking) pandoc targets of which I thought the most crucial and useful of the list of examples http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/demos.html
[22:09:38] <@nickl_> Including targets like pandoc-md2html, pandoc-html2md, pandoc-md2epub and the off course the singled out pandoc-media-wiki under question  
[22:10:24] <@nickl_> Not to mention .pandoc-slideous and pandoc-highlight-xxx flavours =)
[22:10:57] <@nickl_> But the question stands should we not incorporate the github API more into Foundation 
[22:12:30] <@nickl_> As I would see make github-issues from=respect/foundation a tad less troublesome than my urrent approach 
[22:14:18] <@nickl_> Which brings us to caching since why am I otherwise making 500 calls to the some endpoint over ond over again when I won't be getting a different result in any event other than the fact that I don't have a Caching solution alceady integrated or familiar or at hand
[22:15:11] <@nickl_> caching is not something that should cobe as an offort or after thought to attempt at resquiing an averburdend resource 
[22:16:07] <@nickl_> It should be right there when I need it for what ever I may choose without much thought to go into it - what would you say? 
[22:16:24] <@nickl_> --------------------------------------------------- end of topics
[22:19:11] <alganet> guys, I need to go =( sending this to my email so I can check later
[22:19:17] <@nickl_> check out those pandoc slide demos that can be generated from a tiny bit of markdown it's so cute 
[22:19:17] <alganet> til later!
[22:19:36] <@nickl_> later have a safe journey 
[22:19:51] <@nickl_> Yes just reply via my mail 
[22:20:07] <@nickl_> If it's easier we will find a way to distribute 
[22:20:28] <@nickl_> alganet: Panda logs yes 
[22:20:57] <alganet> panda logs
[22:21:02] <alganet> oops
[22:21:05] <alganet> not that, right =P
[22:21:09] <@nickl_> still planning on taking him to the server (details you've already provided) but rest assured if panda is here it sees everyhing 
[22:21:10] <@RespectPanda> alganet: Are we still talking about ?           
[22:21:24] <alganet> awesome!
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[22:23:36] <@nickl_> ------------------------------------------------- For alganet
[22:23:52] <@nickl_> I will e-mail to him but in his absence 
[22:24:36] <@nickl_> Alganet:  1. We do have post-its back home, 
[22:25:17] <@nickl_> Similar would be post-its online that anyone can grab and mark in-progress  
[22:28:17] <@nickl_> Trello is great don't get me wrong but whece it lacks is what the agile / scrum artifacts kick in of backlog, committing to sprint, estimates, duration, dependency, daily scrum whch just having a list of outstanding tasks grouped by list category doesn't really urge that necesity to complet IMO  
[22:29:48] <@nickl_> Then there are the reports, from the scrum artifacts that give you a tangible overview of the progress which again intices motivation and eagerness to continue or accomplish 
[22:30:12] <@nickl_> But I don't see the one replacing the other no.
[22:30:43] <@nickl_> Alganet: 2. I personally do prefer using only the Makefile
[22:31:45] <@nickl_> I love the make file I am not suggesting we change that nor that we change the current way of downloading and making foundation this remains 
[22:34:58] <@nickl_> What I'd like to get agreement on is that the .foundation folder should reside under $HOME ~/.foundation this is not a strange place for it and if we agree that it actually houses non project specific or iow re-usable binaries that can be executed from any project's Makefile, Yes  we still have the Makefile per project it just references ~/.foundation instead of .foundation 
[22:35:21] <@nickl_> as do all the other Makefiles from the other projects
[22:37:22] <@nickl_> Once intalled, not replacing the curl some url I will forget retrieval, injection, acquiring of the Makefile for a new project I see a single foundation command on the path accesible by simply typing foundation with the sole task of 
[22:38:05] <@nickl_> Not dowtloading the Makefile as you already have it bit copying it from ~/.foundation to the current directory 
[22:38:24] <@nickl_> that is all. Nothing more the rest you can do from make
[22:38:58] <@nickl_> Algaet: 4. make ci? =D 
[22:39:26] <@nickl_> I need more bone thrown to able a reply
[22:39:38] <@nickl_> --------------------------------------------- end Alganet reply
[22:40:56] <@nickl_> ------------------------------------------------------- augusto_pascutti reply
[22:41:04] <@nickl_> augusto_pascutti: I am willing to try and play with acunote
[22:41:38] <@nickl_> that is all I am doing to see what it does and the issues I created for Foundation is not working.
[22:41:48] <@nickl_> What I was hoping 
[22:42:20] <@nickl_> - To introduce tasks I need help with (developer should not be tester too) 
[22:43:01] <@nickl_> - To make small easily consumably bitesive tasks that can easily and quickly be accomplished
[22:43:41] <@nickl_> - urge co-operation and a keen interest to get involved 
[22:44:15] <@nickl_> The bottom line these are all valid and outstanding tasks that need to be resolved one way or the other 
[22:44:28] <@nickl_> They did not accomplish even one of my goals 
[22:44:40] <@nickl_> Issues as great for: 
[22:44:57] <@nickl_> - Bug reports or support queries 
[22:45:07] <@nickl_> - Feature requests 
[22:45:30] <@nickl_> - Exchanging ideas 
[22:45:40] <@nickl_> - Panda pictures 
[22:46:31] <@nickl_> augusto_pascutti: we really need something to give us the whole picture.
[22:48:01] <@nickl_> True and also what is happening, where are we going, haw far have we come, who's busy with what, when are we releasing what and where can I help right now since I only have 10 mins to spare.
[22:48:03] <@nickl_> Agreed?