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Consolidation of Glyph Sharing Suggestions #38

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kenlunde opened this issue Apr 11, 2017 · 20 comments

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@kenlunde
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commented Apr 11, 2017

This issue is meant for tracking and submitting suggestions for glyph sharing changes that result in glyphs no longer being necessary. Any such changes in Version 1.xxx will be implemented via mapping changes, and the unused glyphs will be targeted for removal as part of the Version 2.000 update. Issues that were submitted before this consolidation issue was opened are referenced by issue number.

  • Remove the JP glyphs for U+35EB 㗫, U+618F 憏, U+6456 摖, U+66A9 暩, U+6C77 汷, and U+78DC 磜, uni35EB-JP, uni618F-JP, uni6456-JP, uni66A9-JP, uni6C77-JP, and uni78DC-JP, respectively, per Issue #27.
  • Remove the CN glyphs for U+4F8D 侍, U+6641 晁, and U+6C35 氵, uni4F8D-CN, uni6641-CN, and uni6C35-CN, respectively, per Issue #28.
  • Remove the TW glyph for U+504F 偏, uni504F-TW per Issue #28.
  • Remove the JP glyph for U+4EBD 亽, uni4EBD-JP, per Issue #34.
  • Remove the TW glyph for U+77A2 瞢, uni77A2-TW, per Issue #36.
  • Remove the TW glyphs for U+76EC 盬 and U+8B04 謄, uni76EC-TW and uni8B04-TW, respectively, per Issue #39 (but first swap them with their CN glyphs, uni76EC-CN and uni8B04-CN, respectively; the latter requires adjustment).
  • Remove the JP glyphs for U+72B3 犳 and U+7300 猀, uni72B3-JP and uni7300-JP, respectively, per Issue #59.
  • Remove the JP glyphs for U+5125 儥, U+58B0 墰, U+6D2C 洬, and U+83C2 菂, and U+970C 霌, uni5125-JP, uni58B0-JP, uni6D2C-JP, uni83C2-JP, uni970C-JP, respectively, per Issue #61.
  • Remove the KR glyph for U+4E7C 乼, uni4E7C-KR, per Issue #61.
  • Remove the CN glyphs for U+62FF 拿, U+6301 持, U+6DE6 淦, U+6DFC 淼, U+6EB4 溴, U+732A 猪, and U+81EC 臬, uni62FF-CN, uni6301-CN, uni6DE6-CN, uni6DFC-CN, uni6EB4-CN, uni732A-CN, and uni81EC-CN, respectively.
  • Remove the JP glyph for U+6EA3 溣, uni6EA3-JP.
  • Remove the HK glyph for U+9FD2 鿒, uni9FD2-HK.
  • Remove the KR glyph for U+7199 熙, uni7199-KR.
  • Remove the KR glyph for U+52FB 勻, uni52FB-KR.
  • Remove the KR glyph for U+7A3D 稽, uni7A3D-KR.

Note To Self: I have not yet checked this report and after.

@hfhchan

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commented Apr 12, 2017

image

U+81EC CID 34088 is nearly the equivalent to CID 34089.

@hfhchan

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commented Apr 14, 2017

image
U+6DE6 24166 === 24165

@hfhchan

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commented Apr 14, 2017

image
U+6DFC 24211 = 24212

@hfhchan

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commented Apr 14, 2017

image
U+6E23 (JP) 24272 === 61621

@kenlunde

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commented Apr 14, 2017

@hfhchan: uni6E23-JP (CID+61621) and uni6E23uE0101-JP (CID+24272) are intentional duplicate glyphs that shall remain for Adobe-Japan1 IVD collection compatibility.

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commented Apr 14, 2017

@kenlunde should they be mapped to the same CID though? as they look nearly identical

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commented Apr 14, 2017

image
U+6EA3 24499 === 24498 (latter of which is likely to be going away as it is outside the scope of JP subset)

@kenlunde

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commented Apr 14, 2017

@hfhchan: About U+6E23 渣, the duplicate glyph shall remain for reasons already stated. Derivative implementations are free to do what they choose.

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commented Apr 14, 2017

image
U+6EB4 24531 === 24530

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commented Apr 15, 2017

@kenlunde: Ah, sorry I had not realized (until just now) that since GSUBs are done on a glyph basis, separate glyph IDs have to be maintained to make sure glyphs for IVD don't get substituted away. Sorry for the churn

@hfhchan

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commented Apr 21, 2017

image
No observable difference exists for the JP and CN variants of U+62FF and U+6301.

@kenlunde

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commented Apr 22, 2017

@hfhchan: Noted. The CN glyphs for U+62FF 拿 and U+6301 持, uni62FF-CN and uni6301-CN, respectively, will be removed in Version 2.000.

@jimmymasaru

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commented May 7, 2017

Glyphs for 猪, uni732A-CN and uni732A-JP can be shared.

@tamcy

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commented May 11, 2017

In this report, CN implies TW unless explicitly mentioned.

View image

sharable1

旦 (U+65E6) : CN = JP
昧 (U+6627) : CN = JP
暖 (U+6696) : CN = JP
暴 (U+66B4) : CN = JP
曝 (U+66DD) : CN = JP
本 (U+672C) : CN = JP
杖 (U+6756) : CN = JP
枳 (U+67B3) : CN = JP
桓 (U+6853) : CN = JP
橙 (U+6A59) : CN = JP
沁 (U+6C81) : CN = JP
淪 (U+6DEA) : CN = JP
瀑 (U+7011) : CN = JP
異 (U+7570) : CN = JP
的 (U+7684) : CN = JP
瞠 (U+77A0) : CN = JP
秘 (U+79D8) : CN = JP
而 (U+800C) : CN = JP
蜀 (U+8700) : CN = JP
鴆 (U+9D06) : CN = JP
黴 (U+9EF4) : CN = TW

Some entries are with doubts:

  • 的 (U+7684): it seems that it's confirmed that the designer intentionally make the width of the two components (白 & 勺) different for CN and JP - CN has a wider 白. Please ignore this one.
  • 鴆 (U+9D06): in ancient writing, the last two strokes of 冘 are connected. Now they are disconnected, and IMHO their distance should be up to the style of the typeface, not a region-specific issue. For instance, "耽 (U+803D)" uses the same glyph for TW and JP, and looks completely fine. But this looks like the exception. Other glyphs, like 沈 and 枕, are separated.
  • 沁 (U+6C81) , 秘 (U+79D8): the discrimination seems intentional - the designer seems to believe that the degree of rotation of the last to dots of 心 is a regional difference, not a typeface design discretion.

As a side note, I found that the KR version of the typeface (which serves a more traditional form of Traditional Chinese characters) more "smooth" to read than the TW version. Despite the glyph difference to comply with regional standard, I found that a number of CN-glyphs tend to push the glyph's 重心 (weight center?) downwards, which I suspect is one of the causes. Refer to 昧,曝,瀑,瞠,秘 in the this reported issue for some obvious examples. But I'm not in the position to comment on this professional matter, I believe it worth further investigation by a more authorized entity.

@tamcy

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commented May 11, 2017

徒 (U+5F92) : CN = JP
走 (U+8D70) : CN = JP
赴 (U+8D74) : CN = JP
起 (U+8D77) : CN = JP (*TW ≠ CN)
超 (U+8D85) : CN = JP
趖 (U+8D96) : CN = JP
View image

sharable2

Notes:

  • 趁 (U+8D81) and 陡 (U+9661) included in the image for reference.
  • For the JP glyph of 趖, vertical strokes of the 走 component are connected, making it inconsistent with other design. 樾 U+6A3E is another example.

u 6a3e

@tamcy

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commented May 11, 2017

sharable3

挑 (U+6311) : CN = JP
桃 (U+6843) : CN = JP
矽 (U+77FD) : CN = JP
@hfhchan

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commented May 11, 2017

For 矽 (U+77FD), the TW glyph can be replaced with the JP glyph, while the CN glyph kept for CN only.

It is typical design that the 夕 is widened at the top in CN locales. This is similar to the problem with 多 I reported earlier.

@Explorer09

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commented May 17, 2017

U+4E0D (不): Two glyphs have identical strokes. Can consider merging. (Or is there any reason to have this minor positioning difference?)
U+574F (坏): Likewise.
U+4E15 (丕): If Source Han wishes to follow the TW MoE glyph (note 1), just like in U+4F3E (伾) and U+576F (坯), then at least be consistent. Let the vertical stroke barely touch the horizontal base.
note 1: http://language.moe.gov.tw/001/Upload/files/SITE_CONTENT/M0001/SUNGTI/as1.htm (丕 Number 100013)

selection_308
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@Marcus98T

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commented Oct 29, 2018

Remove the JP glyph for U+6EA3 溣, uni6EA3-JP.

I suggest you remove the CN glyph instead because the JP looks aesthetically better, then map the JP glyph to the CN, TW and HK locale.

Edited my comment because I was a bit rude earlier, but my suggestion remains intact. My apologies.

@kenlunde

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commented Oct 29, 2018

@Marcus98T Thank you. We'll take this under advisement.

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