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* more typo fixes
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14 changes: 7 additions & 7 deletions 2018-09-20-Conversation-at-New-York-University.an.xml
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<p>You may know James Fishkin’s work out of Stanford. He’s the granddaddy of this field who said it’s only legitimate we’re going to get a representative sample of the population, 400 people together in a room, and measure their opinion. Why start here?</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>It is not very clear to me that once you get after the sortition, that these people will actually carry out the deliberation back to the communities that share their sampled statistic characteristics. That’s the first one. A second is that even if it is statistically fair, some people are just better oratorists and other people better at rhetorics, better at convincing other people, given a limited amount of time.</p>
<p>It is not very clear to me that once you get after the sortition, that these people will actually carry out the deliberation back to the communities that share their sampled statistic characteristics. That’s the first one. A second is that even if it is statistically fair, some people are just better orators than other people, better at rhetorics, better at convincing other people, given a limited amount of time.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>It was not at all clear to us that we should start with a representative sampling. Of course, if you want this decisional part to be informed by such sortition-based sampling, we do have some of that here going on in Taiwan, but it is more of in the ideation and decisional processes and not at all in the first two phases.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>These two are disconnected. They can be connected by a shared question, but when we started, we were not entirely sure that we should start with a random sortition, mostly because, first, there’s no culture for it. There’s no jury system in Taiwan. We’re just starting to introduce one, so it’s experimental, so people don’t have any prior experience to sortition.</p>
<p>These two are disconnected. They can be connected by a shared question, but when we started, we were not entirely sure that we should start with a random sortition, mostly because, first, there’s no culture for it. There’s no jury system in Taiwan. We’re just starting to introduce one, so it’s experimental, and people don’t have any prior experience to sortition.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>The second thing is that we want to make this really lightweight so that any city public servant can run it by themselves, and sortition is expensive compared to this mechanism.</p>
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<p>In your wildest dreams, does every piece of government action go through this process?</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>No. [laughs] Mostly because getting people on the same page thing is really difficult. This checking of reflective feelings rest on the fact that people can look at a description in some crowd-sourced data about private drivers and charging people for it. Everybody who participate have an idea of what is it like.</p>
<p>No. [laughs] Mostly because getting people on the same page is really difficult. This checking of reflective feelings rest on the fact that people can look at a description in some crowd-sourced data about private drivers and charging people for it. Everybody who participate have an idea of what is it like.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>If it is too far in the future, for example, if we’re deliberating about, I don’t know, zero-knowledge proofs and data agency based on mutual ledgers governance systems, then it will require a lot more intuition-building before we actually enter the checking of feelings.</p>
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<p>What do you perceive to be the greatest risks in this process, or is it all upside?</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>We’re all very wary of our vendor lock-in. When we first used pol.is for the UberX discussion, there was a lot of flak from the civic tech community, because it was proprietary. Even though that the folks running pol.is said that they would share all the data, we have no way to know whether they were actually sharing all the data. They’re really just a Seattle startup.</p>
<p>We’re all very wary of vendor lock-in. When we first used pol.is for the UberX discussion, there was a lot of flak from the civic tech community, because it was proprietary. Even though that the folks running pol.is said that they would share all the data, we have no way to know whether they were actually sharing all the data. They’re really just a Seattle startup.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>Basically, we don’t know what is the data policy like. We took the bet, but we also peer-pressure a lot for them to go Affero GPL, which is one of the most liberal version of open-source licenses.</p>
<p>Basically, we don’t know what is the data policy like. We took the bet, but we also peer-pressure a lot for them to go Affero GPL, which is one of the most libre version of open-source licenses.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>Also making sure that we can host it locally and basically have everybody can be part of the governance system that makes sure that this mechanism of democracy is itself democratic, in the sense that its code, its data, its operation is community-owned.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>After I became the Digital Minister, of course, I took this philosophy into my office. Basically, we built this sandstorm installation, which is, again, another startup. But it’s all open-source, and we get our separate security people to audit it.</p>
<p>After I became the Digital Minister, of course, I took this philosophy into my office. Basically, we built this sandstorm.io installation, which is, again, another startup. But it’s all open-source, and we get our separate security people to audit it.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>What this does is basically it sandboxes the apps in a computer science sense. It boxes the apps that runs on top of it so that they don’t have to worry about cybersecurity authentication, authorization, and whatnot. We can use all open-source technologies for collaborative decision-making, just note taking or whatever on top of this platform.</p>
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<p>I saw a hand before. Maybe it was a nose scratch. My apology. We have one all the way in the back that’s next.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audience Member">
<p>I’m going to focus a little more practically, I guess. My name’s Kai Feeder. I work with Beth in New Jersey capacity as of two and a half weeks ago. [laughs]</p>
<p>I’m going to focus a little more practically, I guess. My name’s Kai Feder. I work with Beth in New Jersey capacity as of two and a half weeks ago. [laughs]</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audience Member">
<p>When you’re looking at, with civil servants in particular that are used to very rigid structures, and you’re engaging them in this very different approach to governance, innovation, etc., are there specific types of characteristics and skills that you think really lead to more successful outcomes?</p>
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18 changes: 9 additions & 9 deletions 2018-09-21-Conversation-at-Asia-Society.an.xml
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<p>Interesting. What are some of the points of resistance that you are encountering to elements of this set of programs, whether it’s Join, vTaiwan, or open government? Who’s pushing back?</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>Mostly, it’s the career public service, who initially thought it is something extra to do, something that they don’t have much credit. The ministry would take all the credit if things go well, and if things go wrong, they are always to blame, and so on.</p>
<p>Mostly, it’s the career public service, who initially thought it is something extra to do, something that they don’t have much credit. The Minister would take all the credit if things go well, and if things go wrong, they are always to blame, and so on.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>When I went into the cabinet, the PDIS, my office is deliberately one person from each ministry. I’m allowed to poach one person from each ministry. Theoretically, I can have 32 staff. Now, I have 22. Anyway, it is a truly multistakeholder team.</p>
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<p>If the public service in the 14 days of editing, the journalist gets most of the copy, then it will destroy the trust that the career public service place on me. I have to personally ensure the cyber security of the system that we use.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>The system’s called Sandstorm, by the way, sandstorm.io. Aside from introducing that, we also commissioned top notch white hat hackers, people who are expert in computer security, won the second place internationally in DevCon to attack the system.</p>
<p>The system’s called Sandstorm, by the way, sandstorm.io. Aside from introducing that, we also commissioned top notch white hat hackers, people who are expert in computer security, won the second place internationally in DEFCON to attack the system.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>This is not just some black box penetration testing. This whole system is open source. They pore through each line, looking for vulnerabilities, looking for security holes.</p>
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<p>Maybe the media would report it for the day, and then, there are countless multiple time zones. There are countless multiple currency systems. It’s not a strong enough identity.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>People said, “If we’re going to pay a large one-time cost, and a not-so-long but still sizable ongoing cost to implement this, why don’t we use the same budget to make Taiwan unique in a way that’s cultural, in a way that’s open governance, digital governance. Maybe we can export the system, like Estonia does, and things like that.”</p>
<p>People said, “If we’re going to pay a large one-time cost, and a not-so-long but still sizable ongoing cost to implement this, why don’t we use the same budget to make Taiwan unique in a way that’s cultural, in a way that’s open governance, digital governance. Maybe we can export the system, like Estonia does,” and things like that.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>It became the consensus of all the 16,000 people participating in the petition, although there was controversy. There were also people who can advocate for the rough consensus that we reached at the end.</p>
<p>It became the consensus for all the 16,000 people participating in the petition, although there was controversy. There were also people who can advocate for the rough consensus that we reached at the end.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Daniel R. Russel">
<p>I see. Thanks. I was guessing that maybe the debate was going to land on GMT plus-eight and a half.</p>
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<p>Just like the Internet itself certainly doesn’t have a navy or army, but they found themselves being arbiter and organizer of people’s movements, just as we in the public sectors do. I think in many concrete cases, like in Taiwan, we see the use of AI, of bots to spread disinformation.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>We’re in the front line of it. We see using bots to, for example, con people into buying counterfeit goods, which they pay upon delivery, and found that it’s broken. There’s nothing to return to. I’m still an optimist in doing those semi-diplomatic missions, because early 2000, I went through the spam war, which is not a real war in a real battlefield, just a very complicated issue.</p>
<p>We’re in the front line of it. We see folks using bots to, for example, con people into buying counterfeit goods, which they pay upon delivery, and found that it’s broken. There’s nothing to return to. I’m still an optimist in doing those semi-diplomatic missions, because early 2000, I went through the spam war -- which is not a real war in a real battlefield, just a very complicated issue.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>Back then, people thought email was being destroyed by people who abuse the fact that you can send an email for $0.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>Finally, the solution during the spam wars was not from we, the technologists, who implemented strong cryptographic measures, nor from large email hosters, like Gmail, nor from governments which passed the laws on unsolicited emails, nor from the consumer protection authorities, nor from the educators.</p>
<p>Finally, the solution during the spam wars was not from us, the technologists, who implemented strong cryptographic measures, nor from large email hosters, like Gmail, nor from governments which passed the laws on unsolicited emails, nor from the consumer protection authorities, nor from the educators.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>It’s everybody doing a little bit in a coordinated action that increased the cost of spam a little bit along the way. It reached a point where it doesn’t earn anyone anything to send spams. Then we don’t see much spams anymore after that.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>This kind of multistakeholder open negotiation, it does take time. It took five years back in the spam war. We think that it is always better than one single actor dominating the field by basically passing draconian laws that makes everybody else go into the black market, or anything like that. Rather in a serious, ongoing discussion of Internet governance.</p>
<p>This kind of multistakeholder open negotiation, it does take time. It took five years back in the spam war. We think that it is always better than one single actor dominating the field by basically passing draconian laws that makes everybody else go into the black market, or anything like that. We’d rather engage in a serious, ongoing discussion of Internet governance.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Daniel R. Russel">
<p>That’s terrific. Thank you very much.</p>
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<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>The innovators there still have a strong enough societal mandate, so that they cannot actually shut GitHub off. I think it’s not as polarized as dystopian at this point, but of course, we’ll pay close attention.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Tom Nagorski">
<speech by="#Daniel R. Russel">
<p>Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Yes, the lady with the black dress. You, yes.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audience Member">
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<p>They are basically for-profit entities with a clear social mission to make something happen to solve a sustainable development goal challenge. I am also the minister with the mandate to work with social innovators, entrepreneurs, and anyone who want to make a business out of solving an environmental or social need.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>We SDG index their work, and put it on a dashboard that I don’t have time to show. Basically, we play matchmakers to people with environmental or social needs, and build sustainable business models for the companies who are interested in solving these needs to thrive, and also export it.</p>
<p>We SDG-index their work, and put it on a dashboard that I don’t have time to show. Basically, we play matchmakers to people with environmental or social needs, and build sustainable business models for the companies who are interested in solving these needs to thrive, and also export it.</p>
</speech>
<speech by="#Audrey Tang">
<p>For example, the Taiwan Water Corporation recently, through the president hackathon, established a relationship with AI researchers to detect the water leakages early, so that they don’t have to wait a year and a half before repairing a new leakage point.</p>
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