Update Spatial Description needed by IFC Rail #139

MatthieuPERIN · 2021-07-06T08:53:22Z

Recast of #40 Pull request.

Linked issue
Resolves #111

Update IfcRelInterferesElement DocEntity & Documentation

…esElements_update Update IfcRelInterferesElement DocEntity & Documentation

MatthieuPERIN · 2021-07-06T09:05:29Z

I have tried to follow requirement expressed in #40, to be reviewed and validated by @AlexBrad1eyCT & @SergejMuhic .

SergejMuhic

Some comments and corrections and a request. Also, would appreciate the clarification of how geometry, zone and elements interact in terms of shape representation and placement.

IFC4x3/Constants/i/INTERFERENCE_1YJr7LhNL3efA_mK43uKGl.xml

...ore data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml

SergejMuhic · 2021-07-06T17:48:20Z

...ore data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml

 		</DocAttribute>
 		<DocAttribute Name="ImpliedOrder" UniqueId="57512488-73cf-44cc-995d-d5e84df6ae44" DefinedType="IfcLogical">
-			<Documentation>Logical value indicating whether the interference geometry should be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_ (if TRUE), or whether it should be either subtracted from the _RelatingElement_ or the _RelatedElement_ (if FALSE), or whether no indication can be provided (if UNKNOWN).</Documentation>
+			<Documentation>Logical value indicating if the _RelatingElement_ has priority over the _RelatedElement_. TRUE value imply that relation is oriented from _RelatingElement_ to _RelatedElement_ (in regards of the _InterferenceType_) and that the _InterferenceGeometry_ should be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_. FASLE value imply that relation has no orientation and that _InterferenceGeometry_ may be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_ or the _RelatedElement_.UNKNOWN value imply that no information about the orientation is provided</Documentation>


The geometry part still is very vague. In my view. for such purposes IfcBooleanResult could also be used. I am struggling to see the purpose of this here. I have a few questions:

Why put something like that in a sentence if there is a dedicated entity for it? Makes it harder to implement.

How are the zone and interference geometry supposed to interact? Is interference geometry supposed to be the geometry of the zone?

In which coordinate system is the interference geometry?

Are all geometry types in IfcConnectionGeometry (point, curve, surface, volume) allowed and what do subtraction operations mean for each of them?

Suggested change

<Documentation>Logical value indicating if the _RelatingElement_ has priority over the _RelatedElement_. TRUE value imply that relation is oriented from _RelatingElement_ to _RelatedElement_ (in regards of the _InterferenceType_) and that the _InterferenceGeometry_ should be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_. FASLE value imply that relation has no orientation and that _InterferenceGeometry_ may be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_ or the _RelatedElement_.UNKNOWN value imply that no information about the orientation is provided</Documentation>

<Documentation>Logical value indicating if the _RelatingElement_ has priority over the _RelatedElement_. TRUE value implies that the relation is oriented from _RelatingElement_ to _RelatedElement_ (with regards to _InterferenceType_) and that the _InterferenceGeometry_ should be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_. FALSE value implies that relation has no orientation and that _InterferenceGeometry_ may be subtracted from the _RelatingElement_ or the _RelatedElement_.UNKNOWN value imply that no information about the orientation is provided</Documentation>

Usage been vague is copy from historical definition of ImpliedOrder attribute used to define source for geometry of interference. Added usage juste enforce Orientation of relation with specific Interference Types, I will reply only on that new usage (as the historical one is not in the scope of this PR, -> #111)

to Enforce orientation of the relation, the orientation can be made default behavior if needed (thus this variable may be suppressed)

Implémentation should either use geometry XOR space, not both (MVDxml rule to be added IMHO)

Historical usage -> historical choice if any

historical usage -> historical choice if any

For point 3 & 4 I think @TLiebich may provide answers.

Yes, you are right. This relationship was sort of a mess already but now we are also applying it to spatial concepts. I would suggest leaving historical blunders and address:

quite complicated but I trust you have the cases covered

okay, we had the same conversation with @czapplitec 😄

Updated in new version, resolve if OK for you.

SergejMuhic · 2021-07-06T18:10:20Z

... data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md

@@ -1,12 +1,25 @@
-The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial overlap between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.  
+The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial and/or shape interaction between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.  


What is a spatial interaction and how is it different from a shape interaction?

To me spatial interaction state that footprint associated with SpatialElement have an interaction, in link with the change of paradigm that SpatialElement does not have proper shapes (intrinsic geometrical representation) but only footprint (documentation-related and communication-related area/spaces representation).

Can we bring this logic somehow into the documentation? Otherwise, it is not specified.

Added in the documentation:

The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry or zone:
* when the interference is between two physical products, the _InterferenceGeometry_ attribute is used to define the physical interference shape, it can be part of the shape of one of the elements used in the relationship or define the interface between the two shapes using a _IfcConnectionGeometry_.
* when the interference is between two spatial objects, the _InterferenceSpace_ attribute is used to define the interference space between the two associated footprints, expressed by a specific _IfcSpatialZone_ of predefined type _IfcSpatialZoneTypeEnum_ INTERFERENCE.

what happens if the RelatingElement is a spatial element, and the RelatedElement is a physical element? Are such combinations allowed at all? Also is it legal to have InterferenceGeometry AND Interference_Space (both relations instantiated)?

@TLiebich
This is not explicitly forbidden, but the documentation express only clear homogeneous usage.
IMHO cross usage need a more deep review of this relation -> IFC Tunnel 4.4

Both attributes should not be set together:

Documented on line 9 (2 lines below)

@SergejMuhic will add a WHERE clause to forbid this possibility

... data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md

…Elements_update

MatthieuPERIN · 2021-07-08T14:29:14Z

Minor changes suggested where implemented.

SergejMuhic

One thing I am still having trouble with is the coordinate system of InterferenceGeometry. It is not your responsibility though (old sins).

Could you add the shape vs spatial interference logic to the documentation?

I would merge after.

SergejMuhic · 2021-07-11T10:41:55Z

... data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md

@@ -1,12 +1,25 @@
-The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial overlap between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.  
+The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial and/or shape interaction between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.  


Can we bring this logic somehow into the documentation? Otherwise, it is not specified.

…Elements_update

* DocEntity for ImpliedOrder attribute have been simplified * Documentation on IfcRelInterferesElements have been clarified * Documentation state clearly that InterferenceGeometryis for physical product and InterferenceSpace is for spatial objects * Documentation state the not both attribute should be set together

MatthieuPERIN · 2021-07-12T13:02:44Z

Major update from 12/07 meeting:

DocEntity for ImpliedOrder attribute have been simplified (@SergejMuhic have a look please)
Documentation on IfcRelInterferesElements have been clarified
Documentation state clearly that InterferenceGeometry is for physical product and InterferenceSpace is for spatial objects
Documentation state that not both attributes should be set together

SergejMuhic

I salute you sir @MatthieuPERIN , really nice re-work.

Just one suggestion to better fit the nature of the attribute and a space removed.

... data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md

...ore data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml

…Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md Co-authored-by: SergejMuhic <sergejs1@gmail.com>

…Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml Co-authored-by: SergejMuhic <sergejs1@gmail.com>

MatthieuPERIN · 2021-07-13T07:19:52Z

Thanks for the final review @SergejMuhic, all propositions accepted as they clearly improve overall quality !
IfcRelInterferesElements update completed 🥳

Merge pull request bSI-InfraRoom#40 from MatthieuPERIN/IfcRelInterfer…

559cbdb

…esElements_update Update IfcRelInterferesElement DocEntity & Documentation

AlexBrad1eyCT added documentation Issues or pull requests relating to documentation EXPRESS Issues or pull requests relating to EXPRESS schema labels Jul 6, 2021

Updated to take into account remarks on bSI-InfraRoom#40

d10be43

SergejMuhic self-requested a review July 6, 2021 17:27

SergejMuhic requested changes Jul 6, 2021

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Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/develop' into IfcRelInterferes…

91a2597

…Elements_update

matthieu.perin added 2 commits July 8, 2021 16:30

Changes suggested in review bSI-InfraRoom#139

0f1d07a

Suggested changes applied

a3594e5

MatthieuPERIN requested a review from SergejMuhic July 8, 2021 15:03

SergejMuhic requested changes Jul 11, 2021

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SergejMuhic assigned MatthieuPERIN Jul 12, 2021

SergejMuhic added this to In progress in IFC4x3 via automation Jul 12, 2021

matthieu.perin added 2 commits July 12, 2021 14:28

Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/develop' into IfcRelInterferes…

e4f31c2

…Elements_update

MatthieuPERIN requested a review from SergejMuhic July 12, 2021 13:02

SergejMuhic reviewed Jul 12, 2021

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... data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

...ore data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

MatthieuPERIN and others added 2 commits July 13, 2021 09:16

Update IFC4x3/Sections/Core data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/…

eb3edbe

…Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/Documentation.md Co-authored-by: SergejMuhic <sergejs1@gmail.com>

Update IFC4x3/Sections/Core data schemas/Schemas/IfcProductExtension/…

b05b16b

…Entities/IfcRelInterferesElements/DocEntity.xml Co-authored-by: SergejMuhic <sergejs1@gmail.com>

MatthieuPERIN requested review from SergejMuhic and TLiebich July 13, 2021 07:20

SergejMuhic approved these changes Jul 13, 2021

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IFC4x3 automation moved this from In progress to Reviewer approved Jul 13, 2021

SergejMuhic merged commit 5626a75 into bSI-InfraRoom:develop Jul 13, 2021

IFC4x3 automation moved this from Reviewer approved to Done Jul 13, 2021

pjanck added the IFC4x3_RC4 To be resolved before IFC4x3_RC4 label Mar 26, 2024

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Update Spatial Description needed by IFC Rail #139

Update Spatial Description needed by IFC Rail #139

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		@@ -1,12 +1,25 @@
		The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial overlap between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.
		The _IfcRelInterferesElements_ objectified relationship indicates that two elements interfere. Interference is a spatial and/or shape interaction between the two elements. It is a 1 to 1 relationship. The concept of two elements interfering physically or logically is described independently from the elements. The interference may be related to the shape representation of the entities by providing an interference geometry.

Update Spatial Description needed by IFC Rail #139

Update Spatial Description needed by IFC Rail #139

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MatthieuPERIN commented Jul 6, 2021 • edited by SergejMuhic

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