Add Bastin-1999-92 and Zanchi-2022-170 #1188

mathildavz · 2022-07-12T06:36:11Z

Pull request checklist

Additional information

...

LinguList · 2022-07-12T10:47:49Z

@mathildavz, if you click on DETAILS in the test, that failed, you will see that the error code is about an "invalid column name". This should show up if you run the test on your system before. So question: did you run concepticon --repos=YOURPATH test successfully?

LinguList · 2022-07-12T10:49:47Z

@mathildavz, you have still GLOSS as a column name in your metadata for at least the second metadata file. This may have caused the error in the test.

LinguList · 2022-07-12T10:50:20Z

That is: Zanchi-2022-170.tsv-metadata.json has this the column GLOSS, although it does not occur in the data.

mathildavz · 2022-07-13T06:50:18Z

@mathildavz, if you click on DETAILS in the test, that failed, you will see that the error code is about an "invalid column name". This should show up if you run the test on your system before. So question: did you run concepticon --repos=YOURPATH test successfully?

@LinguList I did successfully. However, now that I think about it, I changed something about Zanchi-2022-170 and forgot to run it again.

mathildavz · 2022-07-13T06:51:47Z

Thank you for finding the mistake! @LinguList

LinguList · 2022-07-13T07:26:15Z

So was this the problem?

LinguList · 2022-07-13T08:31:09Z

Okay, one more thing that should be done now. I'll explain here.

You have the LINK which is part of the URL, the end, right? So if you re-write the metadata now as:

{
        "name": "LINK",
        "datatype": "string",
        "propertyUrl": "dc:relation",
        "valueUrl": "https://hodel.unipv.it/paveda/meanings//{LINK}"
      }

This means, our computer code knows that LINK is a URL-Part and that the concatenation of the base URL https://hodel.unipv.it/paveda/meanings/ with what we find in LINK is creating the new URL we need.

LinguList · 2022-07-13T08:38:38Z

@mathildavz, the tests show still an error, related to the JSON file this time. Can you check on your computer again, that the concepticon test does run without errors? If there's an error, please paste it in full here.

LinguList · 2022-07-13T08:39:27Z

One more point: we do not allow spaces in our headers, so can you adjust the header in Zanchi for ROLE FRAME, using an underscore, also in the metadata.json?

LinguList · 2022-07-13T15:24:32Z

                    {
                        "datatype": "string",
                        "name": "MICROROLES"
                    },

This is the error here: the , in the end must be removed, since it is the end of the list in JSON:

                    {
                        "datatype": "string",
                        "name": "MICROROLES"
                    }

LinguList · 2022-07-14T06:51:31Z

Okay. @tarotis and @AnnikaTjuka could you review this contribution? Annika is in joliday this week, but we are not in a hurry and can do this in the beginning of next week then.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T06:52:55Z

And @MuffinLinwist, please also check this contribution and discussion, so that you can later add the list by sidwell.

chrzyki

I can also help with the review if need be. One small thing: Please don't include the PDFs directly in the commit/PR (I've also noticed that we've got another PDF in sources/ that shouldn't be there). Rather, include them in conceptlists.tsv (PDF column) and make me aware of the PDFs that should be included (here, via mail, Mattermost). I'll then place them on our dedicated storage space for binary files.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T07:45:43Z

Thanks, @chrzyki, we should at some point make sure that I could also upload pdfs if need be, so we do not need to ask you every time. And, @mathildavz, please make a "git rm sources/Bastin1999.pdf" and "git commit" and send the pdf to Christoph in mattermost.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T07:46:14Z

And if you have time to check, Christoph, this is also very welcome of course ;)

FredericBlum · 2022-07-14T10:31:33Z

I'll happily provide my first review. Thanks Mathilda for adding the two concept lists.

Regarding the .bib-file, I have two comments:

Bastin1999 is a book, not an article, so the entry type should be changed
Zanchi2022 has an URL that can be added: https://aclanthology.org/2022.sigtyp-1.14

In the Bastin concept list, there is one typo and one change I would suggest:

Bastin-1999-92-52: moutain should probably be mountain
Bastin-1999-92-61: I would propose to change the mapping from 667 ROAD to 2252 PATH , as this seems more in line with the original description

Further, I have the following suggestions for the Zanchi-2022 list:

Zanchi-2022-170-52 feel cold: currently unmapped, I suggest 3819 COLD (FEELING COLD)
Zanchi-2022-170-66 burn: currently mapped to 1428 BURNING; I suggest a change to 2102 BURN, which seems to be used more frequently and fits the description at least equally
Zanchi-2022-170-102 cram: I actually had to google this first as I didn't knew what this meant, but would 2006 FILL be a fitting link?
Zanchi-2022-170-109 feel sleepy: currently unmapped, I would suggest 1757 TIRED
Zanchi-2022-170-118 assassinate: would KILL or MURDER be adequate?
Zanchi-2022-170-140 sink-tr: currently unmapped, should be 1088 SINK (DESCEND)
Zanchi-2022-170-142 roll-tr: currently unmapped, should probably be 827 ROLL
Zanchi-2022-170-149 get excited: currently unmapped, should be 3972 EXCITED

There are two entries which feature with two different meanings:

Zanchi-2022-170-125 come and come (2)
Zanchi-2022-170-162 shave (something/somebody and shave (self)

In both cases, I would argue that the concept behind the meaning is the same, and that the difference is merely syntactic. Would you agree?

Possible concept additions I was surprised not to find in the list yet:

Zanchi-2022-170-113 capsize
Zanchi-2022-170-115 say (impersonal); as CITE or quote?

LinguList · 2022-07-14T15:29:14Z

Thanks, @Tarotis. Very useful comments.

For sink and similar cases, transitivity is important. And sink in Concepticon is intransitive, so I would not map it. Similar care should be taken for the other concepts.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T15:30:33Z

Burn in Concepticon has a general reading, not specified with resp to transitivity. Burning is intransitive. So mapoing depends from the gloss and the usage.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T15:32:15Z

For cold feel cold I suggest to check which concepts are linked so far. It may just be linked to a concept set "freeze" if we have this and they do not have freeze in their conceptlist already.

FredericBlum · 2022-07-14T16:32:29Z

The concepticon description for sink includes the following part: or to cause something to go down in it.. I would interpret this as transitivity.

LinguList · 2022-07-14T17:11:04Z

Did you check examples? Or broader/narrower? This is more important than the definition, which may be problematic at times. And don't we have another sink in the same list?

LinguList · 2022-07-14T17:11:43Z

But this just needs to be checked and then we see. I am writing from mobile and cannot check right now

LinguList · 2022-07-15T08:16:23Z

@mathildavz and @Tarotis, I propose some checks on the suggestions that I consider critical and should be checked, also illustrating how checking in Concepticon is usually carried out.

Zanchi-2022-170-52 feel cold: currently unmapped, I suggest 3819 COLD (FEELING COLD)

If you check https://concepticon.clld.org/values, and search for feel cold, there is one entry, linked to <NA>, that is, it is left empty. We can make a new concepticon gloss for it, but I would not link to "cold (feeling cold)" now.

Zanchi-2022-170-66 burn: currently mapped to 1428 BURNING; I suggest a change to 2102 BURN, which seems to be used more frequently and fits the description at least equally

BURN is the least specified notion. But BURNING is explicitly intransitive, and the Role Frame by Zanchi et al. is s burns, so I would leave the mapping.

Zanchi-2022-170-102 cram: I actually had to google this first as I didn't knew what this meant, but would 2006 FILL be a fitting link?

Probably not, the role frame in Zanchi is X crams Y into Z.

Zanchi-2022-170-109 feel sleepy: currently unmapped, I would suggest 1757 TIRED

TIRED is an adjectival reading in Concepticon (meaning, it is a state), feel sleepy is a verb. We have one other "feel sleepy" (https://concepticon.clld.org/values/Nagano-2013-1256-27) which is also unlinked so far. So it should not be linked, rather we can later make a new Concepticon Gloss.

Zanchi-2022-170-118 assassinate: would KILL or MURDER be adequate?
KILL definitely not, because it occurs in the list already and we do not want to link different rows in a concept list to the same concepticon gloss (only exceptional cases). MURDER can be discussed, but one should check in https://concepticon.clld.org/values if we have similar links in the past.

Zanchi-2022-170-140 sink-tr: currently unmapped, should be 1088 SINK (DESCEND)

If you check again the values linked to this concept set, you can see that it is always intransitive, and even more important, we have linked the entry "sink" in Zanchi et al. already to this concept set and want to avoid multiple links. So I'd argue: we should update the definition, as it is misleading, and we should correct this entry, which is also wrong, as it is explicitly transitive. We can make a new concepticon gloss "SINK (SOMETHING)" and link both to this entry. We should make an issue to discuss this.

Zanchi-2022-170-142 roll-tr: currently unmapped, should probably be 827 ROLL

Intransitive "roll" in Zanchi et al. is already mapped to this concept. So rather leave it and check links actively (https://concepticon.clld.org/values/, important to check there whenever in doubt).

Zanchi-2022-170-149 get excited: currently unmapped, should be 3972 EXCITED

Adjective vs. verb is not trivial, again, checking https://concepticon.clld.org/values/ is essential, and checking list-internally is also important.

mathildavz · 2022-07-15T08:32:17Z

I propose to change the following (for now) based on your helpful comments @Tarotis and your remarks @LinguList:

change the .bib-file: Bastin a book
change the .bib-file: add URL Zanchi
change Bastin-1999-92-52: moutain to mountain
change Bastin-1999-92-61: 667 ROAD to 2252 PATH

I would not map assassinate to MURDER as the instances in the Concepticon seem to be nouns (the murder, homicide,…), while we are looking at a verb.

Same goes for get excited to 3972 EXCITED: I believe the instances in the Concepticon are adjectives and not verbs.

FredericBlum · 2022-07-15T09:45:47Z

Thank you for the useful comments, I see that I should pay more attention to the examples and not rely on the descriptions as I did previously.

LinguList · 2022-07-15T10:03:46Z

This is a useful enterprise for all of us here :)

What I consider most important when doing the mapping is:

avoid whatever fuzzy mapping, be generous to not map things
make sure to not map two entries in the same concept list to one concept set in concepticon
in cases of doubt, rather than only checking definitions, check what was linked before, since this is at times more reliable and also more "telling" than the definition itself

LinguList · 2022-07-15T10:04:12Z

The discussion will go on when Annika joins next week.

AnnikaTjuka

Great work! I only left a few more comments.

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T13:57:23Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Bastin-1999-92.tsv

+Bastin-1999-92-12	12	breast	sein	1402	BREAST
+Bastin-1999-92-13	13	burn	brûler	2102	BURN
+Bastin-1999-92-14	14	cloud	nuage	1489	CLOUD
+Bastin-1999-92-15	15	cold (weather)	froid	1287	COLD


We have a more specific concept: 2483 COLD (OF WEATHER)

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:00:42Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Bastin-1999-92.tsv

+Bastin-1999-92-38	38	horn	corne	1393	HORN (ANATOMY)
+Bastin-1999-92-39	39	kill	tuer	1417	KILL
+Bastin-1999-92-40	40	knee	genou	1371	KNEE
+Bastin-1999-92-41	41	know	savoir	3626	KNOW


Other instances of savoir are mapped to 410 KNOW (SOMETHING).

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:03:31Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Bastin-1999-92.tsv

+Bastin-1999-92-70	70	seed n	semence	714	SEED
+Bastin-1999-92-71	71	sit	être assis	1416	SIT
+Bastin-1999-92-72	72	skin (human)	peau (humaine)	2613	SKIN (HUMAN)
+Bastin-1999-92-73	73	sleep n	sommeil	1585	SLEEP


SLEEP is the verb meaning, I'd map to 2972 SLEEP (STATE).

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:04:29Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Bastin-1999-92.tsv

+Bastin-1999-92-84	84	tree	arbre	906	TREE
+Bastin-1999-92-85	85	two	deux	1498	TWO
+Bastin-1999-92-86	86	walk	marcher	1443	WALK
+Bastin-1999-92-87	87	warm (weather)	chaud	1232	WARM


More specific: 2110 WARM (OF WEATHER)

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:09:29Z

concepticondata/references/references.bib

@@ -1,4 +1,26 @@

+@Inproceedings{Zanchi2022,
+  Title                               = {PaVeDa - Pavia Verbs Database: challenges and perspectives},
+  Author                              = {Zanchi, Chiara and Luraghi, Silvia and Combei, Claudia R.},


I'd either use Claudia R. also in conceptlists.tsv or Claudia Roberta here.

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:12:29Z

concepticondata/references/references.bib

+}
+
+@Book{Bastin1999,
+  Title                               = {Continuity and divergence in the {B}antu languages: perspectives from a lexicostatistic study},


Uppercase after colon

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:19:44Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Zanchi-2022-170.tsv

+Zanchi-2022-170-49	49	APPEAR	appear	S appears	appearer, appear beneficiary, appear causer, appear location	1076	EMERGE (APPEAR)
+Zanchi-2022-170-50	50	DIE	die	S dies	dieer, killer/death causer, cause of death, dying location	1494	DIE
+Zanchi-2022-170-51	51	FALL	fall	S falls	fallee, fall causer, fall instrument, fall goal, fall source	1280	FALL
+Zanchi-2022-170-52	52	FEEL COLD	feel-cold	S is cold	freezing person, feeling cold locus, chill causer		


We have 3819 COLD (FEELING COLD), but it is categorized as a property.

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:23:51Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Zanchi-2022-170.tsv

+Zanchi-2022-170-80	80	HEAR	hear	E hears M	hearer, heard sound, hear instrument, hear causer	1408	HEAR
+Zanchi-2022-170-81	81	WANT	want	A wants X	wanter, wanted thing, want beneficiary, want causer	1784	WANT
+Zanchi-2022-170-82	82	SINK	sink	S sinks	sunken entity, sink-(caus)er, sink location	1088	SINK (DESCEND)
+Zanchi-2022-170-83	83	BOIL	boil	S boils	boiled thing, boiler	792	BOIL (OF LIQUID)


I'd map to the broader concept: 2493 BOIL

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:26:54Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Zanchi-2022-170.tsv

+Zanchi-2022-170-106	106	ENTER	enter	X enters somewhere	enterer, entered place	749	ENTER
+Zanchi-2022-170-107	107	REST	rest	X rests	resting person	168	REST
+Zanchi-2022-170-108	108	DRINK	drink	X drinks Y	drinking person, drunken thing	1401	DRINK
+Zanchi-2022-170-109	109	FEEL SLEEPY	feel-sleepy	E feels sleepy	sleepy head		


It could be mapped to 3620 SLEEPY since other glosses are also mapped to properties.

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-18T14:31:07Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Zanchi-2022-170.tsv

+Zanchi-2022-170-135	135	MAKE APPEAR	make-appear	A makes P appear	appearer (tr), appear causer (tr)		
+Zanchi-2022-170-136	136	FELL	fell	A fells P	feller, fellee	355	CUT DOWN
+Zanchi-2022-170-137	137	DROP	drop	A drops P	dropper, dropped thing	2866	DROP (SOMETHING)
+Zanchi-2022-170-138	138	SEAT	seat	A seats P (somewhere L)	seater, seatee, seating place	1476	CHAIR


CHAIR is a noun. I'd unmap.

LinguList · 2022-07-18T14:43:07Z

Thanks @AnnikaTjuka, so I suggest @mathildavz wraps this up, incorporating all of your comments (with which I agree) tomorrow, and we can merge this PR.

LinguList · 2022-07-18T14:44:15Z

Our next PR will be done by @MuffinLinwist (Carlos) on a dataset by Sidwell that is easy to map. Here, I'd ask @mathildavz then to moderate (taking the role I took this time), once Carlos is ready. But this may be on Wednesday only.

AnnikaTjuka

Thanks for integrating the changes. Approved!

AnnikaTjuka · 2022-07-19T08:40:08Z

@chrzyki Since you requested changes, @mathildavz will also need your approval to merge the PR.

LinguList · 2022-07-19T09:24:53Z

@chrzyki, have your requested changes been addressed? If so, I'd merge this now.

LinguList · 2022-07-19T10:13:23Z

I just saw that you indeed followed the requests, @mathildavz. So I merged right now.

add new concept lists

69f09c0

mathildavz requested a review from LinguList July 12, 2022 06:36

mathildavz self-assigned this Jul 12, 2022

mathildavz changed the title ~~Add Bastin-1999-92~~ Add Bastin-1999-92 and Zanchi-2022-170 Jul 12, 2022

mathildavz removed their assignment Jul 12, 2022

mathildavz added 2 commits July 13, 2022 09:49

refine Zanchi-2022-170.tsv-metadata.json

89fb266

refine Zanchi-2022-170.tsv and Zanchi-2022-170.tsv-metadata.json

821799a

refine Zanchi-2022-170.tsv and Zanchi-2022-170.tsv-metadata.json

c7da1e0

chrzyki requested changes Jul 14, 2022

View reviewed changes

mathildavz added 2 commits July 14, 2022 09:53

remove Bastin1999.pdf

1ffd6a0

remove Zanchi2022.pdf

1886ea3

mathildavz added 2 commits July 15, 2022 10:58

refine references.bib

be95b00

refine Bastin-1999-92.tsv

e73e8eb

AnnikaTjuka reviewed Jul 18, 2022

View reviewed changes

mathildavz added 2 commits July 19, 2022 08:39

refine Bastin-1999-92.tsv, Zanchi-2022-170.tsv and references.bib

3486bff

refine Bastin-1999-92.tsv

3223d1d

AnnikaTjuka approved these changes Jul 19, 2022

View reviewed changes

LinguList approved these changes Jul 19, 2022

View reviewed changes

LinguList merged commit fdf71e5 into concepticon:master Jul 19, 2022

This was referenced Oct 7, 2022

Add West Old Turkic concept list #1240

Merged

Kaufman 1973 #1241

Closed

Pavia Verb Database #1184

Closed

Bastin's Bantu Wordlists #1179

Closed

Add Bastin-1999-92 and Zanchi-2022-170 #1188

Add Bastin-1999-92 and Zanchi-2022-170 #1188

Conversation

mathildavz commented Jul 12, 2022 • edited

Pull request checklist

Additional information

LinguList commented Jul 12, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 12, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 12, 2022

mathildavz commented Jul 13, 2022 • edited

mathildavz commented Jul 13, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 13, 2022 via email

LinguList commented Jul 13, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 13, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 13, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 13, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

chrzyki left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

FredericBlum commented Jul 14, 2022 • edited

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

FredericBlum commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 14, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 15, 2022

mathildavz commented Jul 15, 2022 • edited

FredericBlum commented Jul 15, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 15, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 15, 2022

AnnikaTjuka left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

LinguList commented Jul 18, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 18, 2022

AnnikaTjuka left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

AnnikaTjuka commented Jul 19, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 19, 2022

LinguList commented Jul 19, 2022

mathildavz commented Jul 12, 2022 •

edited

mathildavz commented Jul 13, 2022 •

edited

FredericBlum commented Jul 14, 2022 •

edited

mathildavz commented Jul 15, 2022 •

edited