[content]hai-outfits #1002
[content]hai-outfits #1002
Conversation
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Very nice images. As Hai technology is almost the same as human technology you could just put 'Hai' in front of each outfit. With the hyperdrive if you make a Hai version then someone will also need to create a Wanderer and Korath ones as well as a new one for any new species added to the game. I think Hyperdrives need a separate pull. |
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it just makes sense, that a so basic outfit like the hyperdirve, which can reverse engineered by every race, has a more "personal" touch by them. ill remove it from this list, though. About the names, i am not sure, since the grouping in the outfitter and stuff. i would prefer it more after the name, so, in a outfitter window, they are next to their human pendants. But i guess the name of the hai batteries are different than human ones. |
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i believe that your plan for the actual outfit data is a good one; duplicating, adding (Hai) after the parallel outfit name, altering only the sprite attribute - let M.Z. give them the spec flavour that he had intended for the Hai outfits. edit; also looking good - well done with the engines! i agree that each race should have its own hyperdrive sprite - if for nothing other than immersive depth. it may be a universal technology, but different species are bound to have slightly different specs (jump speed, scram angle, size, etc.) which might make a universal sprite confusing - at the very least, it will make the "special" hyperdrives harder to spot at a glance...edit; "ooh - this hyperdrive must be special - it has a different sprite!" would be avoided by having unique sprites for non-unique drives... |
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I'll do it the way local suggested. and thanks :) |
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These look amazing. |
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I think this is, contentwise, finished so far. I may reorganize the hai outfits into one file, additionally. Since most outfits are basically copied from what mr.z did, i am not sure how to handle that. |
Wrzlprnft
changed the title
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Also, the lightning bug and the aphid i think are missing the definition of the turret hardpoint's weapon. not sure if that is on purpose. |
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So, im done here, i think. What a day, though. I hope everyone likes those. |
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6 hours. That is extremely impressive. |
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not to take away from the accomplishment, but i think it's closer to 36 hours - the initial commit was two days ago, the last image 5 hours ago... @Wrzlprnft just submitted the p.r. a couple of days after the branch and initial commits... great job! |
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It seems to me that if the Hai are going to have their own distinct outfits, those outfits should have different attributes in addition to different images - like, maybe Hai outfits could be slightly more heat efficient, or have sizes that fill in the gaps in between the sizes of the equivalent human outfits. Otherwise I feel like players are going to be disappointed when they discover what they think is a whole new set of outfits, then find they're just the old outfits re-skinned. |
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@endless-sky i believe that @Wrzlprnft was hoping for some direction to assign values for these outfits, and since you seemed to have a plan for everything else, you might have had some advice to keep some balance, in spite of smudging some specs to advantage. in short - are there any attributes that will specifically "mess with" the Hai ships balance? edit; in truth, i believe he intended for you to adjust the specs to your satisfaction yourself, but some direction is acceptable, and we'll get to work on it. |
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Hai Tech.txt I'll work on some possible new descriptions tonight and tomorrow. |
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altering stats like that basically renders the human versions obsolete (and is generally lazy). the hai are technologically on the same tier as humans - their outfits shouldn't be the same, only just a little better/more expensive. i've already prepared a set of "in betweens" stats (which in themselves incorporate some of the bonuses you've applied), so that the batteries and engines have tonnage/capacity requirements between the human steps (the last step taking a corresponding step upward). it'll be in @Wrzlprnft mail box in his morning, and probably the pull by ours... edit; oops! we were working on the same thing! if you start at the bottom, i can meet you somewhere in between with the descriptions... |
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Fair enough. I'll take the struggle of trying to find different descriptions for all the engines without them being exactly the same. |
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It looks like the A1 thruster is more efficient (in terms of energy, heat, and space) than the A2 thruster, which is probably a mistake. Also, the A3 steering has most of the same attributes as the human medium atomic steering, rather than being halfway between two human atomic levels like the rest of the engines. The spurious changes in outfits.txt and power.txt should probably be fixed, too. (For tracking the change history of files, it's just useful if there aren't extra changes listed that are not actually doing anything.) I do really want to get this merged in before 0.9.1 (i.e. in the next week and a half or so), since this is the sort of big balance change that's more suited to an "unstable" release. (My hope is for 0.9.2 to be a "stable" release just focused on bug fixes and smaller tweaks.) |
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i see no significant obstacles to getting this merged on the 0.9.1 timeline, if those are your only concerns - i've already begun addressing them locally. |
halfway between human outfits, 2% more thrust, 2% more energy efficient, 5% more heat efficient (than scaled human), extrapolated to the smaller outfit.
one extra Williwaw Cooling to compensate for new heat demands of engines - ~200 heat buffer in combat.
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i think i'm getting a better handle on commits, and those (above) address the concerns you raised. the first time around, i duplicated the human outfits and tried to create a modified value to suit the need. this time, i created a spreadsheet, and had it run the math down the table, and i plugged in the new values. it revealed a couple of other issues as well (e.g. the Hai A2 steering having the same heat as the Human A1 steering, as well as other scaling issues - apparent in that commit). |
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It would also make sense to take out the "A1", "A2" etc. from the thruster and steering model numbers. Presumably the Hai have their own alphabet where the letter that makes the "A" sound is something other than A, in the same way that the Korath have Kar, Lek, Met, etc. instead of Kay, El, Em, etc. And the Hai probably aren't big on assigning numbers to things in place of names, anyway. |
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I've noticed that all the other alien engines start with the same letter (which groups them in the outfitters) was there anywhere in the human alphabet you'd like the Hai engines to fall? (i have a system in mind) edit; given the technological parity, i left the A{x} so that they would fall into their respective spaces at an outfitter, and in fact, many of the insect names do not sound like words the Hai would use... |
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perhaps this could be as simple as explaining that "Human nomenclature is a rough translation from the Hai version, which otherwise seems nonsense." in the A1 steering/thruster descriptions? |
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Well, it could be as simple as just calling them "Hai Butterfly Thruster," "Hai Cleg Thruster," etc. That would group them and make it clear whose technology they are, which would match what you did with the batteries, cooling, and shields. |
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but, it wouldn't retain the order that you desire for scaling outfits (as the names were chosen for their abstract properties, rather than alphabetic) edit; i'm not arguing - i'm suggesting that the engine nomenclature issue can be handled by either coming up with entirely new names (which i'm totally fine with), or with some "make-up" |
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Oh. I saw that they were partly alphabetical (except horsefly) and assumed they were all alphabetical. |
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many of the names were truncated to fit the outfitter screen, and (upon revision and as a happy accident) appear to have fallen into a nearly completely alphabetic order. the names were chosen as the "five fastest flying insects", and over time, i've grown to feel like blurring the line between the engines and ship nomenclature is probably not a great idea. edit; if you're okay with changing "A{x}" to "Hai", "Tabanus" is the generic name for "Horsefly" (according to Wikipedia), and would complete an alphabetic nomenclature for the outfits as they scale (while retaining most of the original abstract intent). |
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okay, so here are some made up names that might fit the Hai linguistic style, and offers nomenclature according to standard: outfit "'Lasrem' Atomic Thruster" outfit "'Lasrem' Atomic Steering" obviously, the only thing set in stone is the second letter, and that the first letter needs to be uniform. |
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That could work, but for consistency please use double quotes (enclosing the entire outfit name in backticks) rather than single quotes. |
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would you prefer 'S' instead of 'L', so that it doesn't split the Plasma engines up any further (than the Ionic Afterburners already do)? or 'B'? another letter after 'T'? |
went with 'B' to keep it near to the human atomics in the outfitter
with new engine nomenclature
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got hasty with the commits again - i'll do better going forward, i promise. otherwise, i believe this is ready... |
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Benga steering has an extra comma in the last sentence.
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@endless-sky changelog is updated. looks good to go. |
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@LocalGod79, can you send me the @2x versions of these outfit images? You sent me some of them, but I'm missing the assets for the regenerators, and I also don't know if any of the images have changed since you sent them to me (a month ago). Thanks! |
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@endless-sky updated address for assets pertaining to this pull; if you would like, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to merge the GIMP assets with the human placeholders they "replaced" - they're by far the largest portion of the data, and have only a layer or two different than the human versions. |
Summary
With this pull i want to replace the images for the hai outfits with more, in my opinion hai-like, images. Since i like the idea of them sharing not only the tier of development but some techniques with the humans, i tried so copy the style of the outfits.
Todo:
Planned outfit images:
Data-Code
I will duplicate all the outfits(maybe for further data tweaking for more hai-like efficiency)
they are named "-outfitname- (Hai)"
Example
Human fusion reactor:
Proposed hai fusion reactor:
2x files
endless-sky/endless-sky-high-dpi#8
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B92_vuqiHabWYVlTaU5FRkR3M1k&usp=sharing