Allow for negative (total) hull repair rate

[EndrosG]

This Pull simply allows the total hull repair rate and shield generation of a ship to become negative.
I did not touch the bays, i.e. fighters and drones are not affected by negative repair rates of their carriers.

I want this for:

• my ancient wreckage (bug: invisible system at pos 0 0 #2369)
• my dead alien bioships (another "unremovable" attempt (enhancement) #2372)
• my "hull breach" outfit (bug: NPC::Load() ---> ship->FinishLoading() too early? #2420)

I am fully aware that ships with a negative hull repair rate get stuck in space if they get disabled in space (either in combat or due to the negative hull repair rate). In the next frame after you assist that ship, it drops below the MinimumHull() again and get's instantly disabled again.
That ship in question is simply too damaged that a standard crew of non-experts could easily repair it in space.

[Tadrix]

Then why do something like that?

I'd suggest to create a new data entry for ships, something like "always disabled", "hulk", or "wreck" instead. (And maybe making it so that players can board them and maybe loot them, but not repair them.)

[EndrosG]

In case of the dead bioship (internally dead, not destroyed) you can still fly around with it, you just have to make it to the next planet before you lose too many hull points.
Regarding your 2nd point: If I cant repair them, can I assist them then at all?
The problem with boarding is, that the AI always opens fire at the hostile disabled ship after you boarded (and looted) it.

[Lorantine]

if ya board & loot a ship & end, autofire shoots it
if ya then target another ship to prevent destroying that hostile ship, then retarget that disabled ship, it shoots again
in general autofire shooting a ship ya plundered shouldn't happen

[Tadrix]

And landing on a planet would somehow re-vitalize a dead bioship? Sounds weird. Also, a dead bioship w/o hull points left wouldn't explode, it would just become uncontrollable (as in, its nerve cells finally died). Unless there are volatile compounds in its system which bring about an explosive existential failure.
I'd rather suggest somehow dropping power levels. A little too long, and the ship is effectively disabled permanently. (A pull which allows negative energy generation.)

Giving fuel also counts as assisting.
Currently ships do not assist their powerless colleagues by charging them, but ideally this should be the case.

Maybe there's a way to override default behaviors for an "always disabled" ship.

[Lorantine]

think futuristic
if ya shoot a human w/ a high energy weapon (like Killzone 3, some charge energy weapon if anyone knows it) that person would explode
a bioship would be "dead" (or incapacitated) when disabled, at most a "no assist" tag could help
then as death explosions, make more organic explosion-like things w/ sounds & don't let it explode that much

[EndrosG]

not sure about your latter comment, Kile, but as I tried to describe in #2372, my imagination of a dead bioship was (similar to Tadrix' finally dead nerve cells), that it woudl rapidly loose energy AND loose hull points.
The only reason/incentive to keep a dead bioship in service would be its pure size if it grew long enough (i.e. didn't die too young). So to say having a very large hull, but at some cost.

[Tadrix]

@EndrosG This discussion probably shouldn't continue here, and I would PM you if GitHub had that feature, but as it is, here goes: I don't understand why you want anything additional to energy and functionality loss. Dead bodies decompose in atmosphere, in wet conditions. Warm & dry = mummy, cold & dry = frozen. And, if that bioship was something more akin to a plant, then think dead trees — things made of them last for centuries, if nothing tries to eat them. So, I suppose, a dead bioship would lose all of its functions and some percentage of hull points (also, no more regeneration, even if it had it before), but other than that, could drift in space for millennia.

That is, unless it is self-destructing by design.
But if I was using a bioship, I'd try to make sure it wouldn't explode on me.

What's wrong with installing some equipment (comm relays, sensors, repair docks) on/in a dead biodship's shell and using it as a space station?

But it's your idea, and I probably am intruding too much; nvm.

[EndrosG]

Nothing is wrong with that, Tadrix. Absolutely nothing. That's somewhat the idea behind, that once it is dead you can remove some organs (brain, muscles, ...) to gain some outfit space.

Btw.: I am not sure if you are aware of: The hull degeneration stops once the ship is disabled. I did not change that part of the code. I.e. it wont self-destruct.

[Tadrix]

Didn't know that.

The thing is, once you upgraded that dead shell, it should stop losing hull points too. Or are you trying to make an outfit with negative regeneration?

[EndrosG]

I have several outfits with negative regeneration.
One of them being the "hull breach" outfit for standard metal based ships. Quoted in #2420.
Another one being part of the alien bioship "death outfits" collection.
One of my main ideas with the bioship is to have it evolving over time - as long as it is alive - which can only be done through outfits. So I have different outfits for different stages of that ships life (young, adult, senior) and have two versions of each (living, dead). This way I can even keep track of the age for a dead ship. A dead ship which lived (in human terms) 50 years has different stats than a dead ship which lived 10 years (i.e. it died in the youth).
The dead versions have a negative hull repair rate. This can be compensated with hull repair outfits but if this aint done, the hull constantly suffers damage. That is, if your ship dies, you must do something.

[Tadrix]

Take a look at Kor Mereti drones. They are supposed to evolve (upgrade over time), but mechanics-wise they are just different ship models (which allows them to look differently).

I'm not sure why you would like to have a "hull breach" for usual ships. In atmosphere it could help to disintegrate ship, but in space nothing would really happen (except dead crew and probably damaged equipment in the breached compartment). Ships are supposed to have airtight compartments and self-sealing doors in such emergencies, so that rest of the ship can continue to function normally. No further deterioration would occur.

This can be compensated with hull repair outfits but if this aint done, the hull constantly suffers damage.

Oh, I see so much problems arising from that… For example, consequences of stacking repairs.

I'd rather suggest to swap health-leaking mortally wounded ship for dead one instead (as in, different ship sprite, no ongoing damage, slightly different stats, etc.). Not sure how to best implement actual swapping though.

[MCOfficer]

i'm just throwing another option into the ring:
you could (probably) realize this as a ship type (like "Nemesis", disables despawning for bountys, or "Heroic").
this way, only ships that have been spawned like this would be affected.

[EndrosG]

@MCOfficer : how could this be applied to ships owned or captured by the player?

[EndrosG]

@Tadrix : I have no idea (in terms of concept) what changes would be needed to allow the game to alter an existing ship in such a way. The introduction of depreciation eventually made such a feature even more complex.
I dont want a solution which works only for NPCs. For NPCs one could "simply" replace the ship by a different model but give it the same name, yes. But that does not work with the player.

[MCOfficer]

@EndrosG afaik this would only work for ships spawned by missions/events/whatever, and disappear on capture (not scientifically proven). maybe i got your demands wrong, i thought you needed this for a mission that included an unrepairable NPC ship.

[EndrosG]

I want it for both. Missions and player stuff.
And I would not like the idea that some "basic" ship attributes / characteristics change because the ship gets captured.