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Abandoned? #155
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I'm following this too, but I wouldn't consider myself so good of a WP developer to contribute. |
Hey @nathanaelphilip and @jan-koch I’ve really struggled to find the time for Herbert. A while back a few people starting helping out a bit but I think it needs someone who would enjoy spending a few hours a week on it. I don’t be believe you need to be a good developer to work on it - anyone making a change even if its not the best way to do something is better than it being abandoned. I’d be happy to give people commits right if they would like to take a go at helping the project. Might be worth a try? Thanks |
Hey @jasonagnew , completely understandable. I would be willing to help out and to manage the PR (and also lead development) if you would be able to help out with a road map for the project. I feel we could get some people to contribute, but you’re the only who knows where it’s going, so we’ll def. need some leadership/direction. |
Hey @jasonagnew, There are a few Advanced WP groups on FB, which I think most of us know. Pretty sure we can find some devs in those who'd be willing to participate. I'm can email a few friends of mine and ask if they want to contribute themselves or know somebody who does. Pretty sure that we can grow a team (I'd be willing to help introduce people to each other and manage communications) if we spread the word about Herbert. Do you already have an idea for the next milestones? |
Hey guys, i am willing to help out where i can too, even though i might not be a pro. |
@nathanaelphilip @jan-koch @sajadghawami @jasonagnew For me, it seems we have two major workloads here.
Concerning 1: Since many of the present issues are questions (i tried to label as many of them as possible), any help on answering a few questions would be most welcome. Most of them should be solved easy enough for people that recently worked with Herbert. Responding to these issues is something anybody can help with! Concerning 2: To be completely honest, I'm not quite sure on how we should proceed with that. I talked to a few people on last WordCamp Europes Contributor Day. The biggest issue for me, in general, is that we would need to decide on whether we should focus on providing a framework for building sophisticated enterprise-grade plugins or for developing open-source plugins for the repo. As sad as it may be, from what I know about the current state of WordPress in general, there is no way around that decision. Aforementioned has to do mostly with Wordpress wanting to be backwards compatible as far as possible. A decision like that is a knife with two blades. That, for example, means that we (and everybody else) building plugins with Herbert can have either cutting edge technology or backwards compatibility. For us (JOSHMARTIN) as an enterprise agency this decision is quite clear. Since @jasonagnew originally built Herbert with enterprise circumstances in mind, taking that direction seems quite obvious to me. Anyway, I find it to be a pity that a project like this seems to be incompatible with the current state of the WordPress ecosystem. @jasonagnew As far as I'm concerned, we should make that decision pretty soon, since it's kind of blocking the project. Maybe we can set up a call pretty soon to talk about it. |
Good points @jeremyzahner. My initial thought on the direction was, that it should focus on enterprise plugins as well. Most free plugins aren't maintained (and maybe were never intended to be maintained). I wonder whether building a framework to build open source plugins adds benefits to most developers or just more workload: Benefits:
Drawbacks:
Just my thoughts :) |
I’ll start looking at some issues this week. I’m excited to see this get some traction! :) |
Hi Everyone My gut feeling is Herbert has got too complex for its own good. Looking back when I first built it - the One possible route I see working would be going back to a simpler version. Instead of pulling the core using Composer we could build a simple installer and updater. Which would fetch the core and change the namespace from Herbert to your plugin name. The updater would still allow people to fetch the newest version. We should focus less on distributing plugins and more in the enterprise environment where the developers have control over the whole install. To improve the up take we could maybe adopt the WordPress VIP coding standard which I dislike but it could help the uptake with right people. We would need to make the core not dependant on any other platforms so that means stripping back any of the Laravel dependencies. I actually did this recently - I took the Herbert router out and converted it to VIP standards and added middleswares - its super simple and a lot easy to work on. https://github.com/jasonagnew/WP-Router It’s nice to see people are interested :) Thanks |
Hi @jasonagnew |
i see your point there... but how about fixing the current major issues before moving away from the dependancies? what is your opinion on that? |
I see you idea. Then also in this case what would be the direction for Twig, that is then more or less a Symfony dependency. The big advantage of both Eloquent and Twig is there they are well known adn easy to learn and apply. Just an example, about this For me I think Herbert is the good base and need to be extended, not to be cut. So if there is an issue with publishing in WP default free plguins repo, Surely not the overall vendors/composer logic with dependencies as multiple plugins in WP free repo are currenlty published with same logic (example WP-erp). Any clear explanations about this? I keep the hope that this current version could be extended and maybe amended without cutting main features, in order to be pushed well to WP Repo. I' ready to help here adn there with adding more feratures, or small evolutions thanks |
@jasonagnew The framework will help taking the Wordpress to a whole next level (though WordPress likes to stick with the backward compatibility). We have built a simple shopping cart using the Herbert Framework https://github.com/cartrabbit From my personal experience building the app, we can eliminate the Models for WP tables (post, meta, etc) because we could very well use the Corcel for it. I am ready to contribute and help manage the project. More and more people are looking for a stable framework to build their application on top of Wordpress. And Herbert can be the answer. |
Hi@rameshelamathidid you try to push this to the WP repo? On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 10:36 AM, rameshelamathi notifications@github.com We have built a simple shopping cart using the Herbert Framework From my personal experience building the app, we can eliminate the Models for WP I am ready to contribute and help manage the project. More and more people are — |
Hey No. I am not trying to push Herbert to WP repo. That is not the aim. It should remain as a Rapid Application Development (RAD) framework for The plugins that are developed using Herbert could be pushed into WP Hope I have explained it well. Thanks On 11/10/16 3:05 pm, renaudham wrote:
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Hi @jasonagnew, I agree with some of the above comments that this should become more of a rapid development framework for enterprise orientated plugins and that more features should be added before worrying about bloat. I'll be rebuilding a large plugin in the new year so I began searching around for a plugin framework and found https://github.com/DevinVinson/WordPress-Plugin-Boilerplate and Herbert. Herbert seems like a brilliant alternative to the boilerplate framework in the same way that the https://github.com/roots/sage starter theme is an alternative to Automatic's UnderscoreS. One framework gives you a base to build something that can easily be uploaded to the Wordpress plugin directory and the other framework allows developers working on bespoke, internal or similar projects to get the job done using modern techniques. I think it's a shame that this project seems very new and extremely useful and it now seems in danger of slipping into obscurity. The roots/sage starter theme directly goes against some Wordpress guidlines in an effort to provide a more modern workflow and it's still one of the most popular frameworks available. I'll be glad to offer some help in the future when I can find the time. Cheers. |
Hey Guys, I have been looking through Herbert and it is amazing, I started on a RAD framework called WP Kit; https://github.com/creativelittledots/wp-kit (Theme) It currently can be used a RAD for your theme and standalone as a sub-directory in your Wordpress root (perfect for developing API's semi-agnostic from WP) There is not much documentation but this is being worked on and should be completed by mid November. I will be looking to make WP Kit capable as a plugin and add the plugin install feature to WP Kit Installer and will be looking at Herbert and taking ideas as to what features could make WP Kit richer. |
Hi @terence1990, i saw you work and it looks interesting, I myself have been working with trying to make herbert compatible with other plugins. Who knows, maybe in the future we can combine all 3 projects into network. Good luck on your progress! Cant wait to see results! |
Hey! I've made loads of updates today to WP Kit Core, taking inspiration from Once it's there feel free to fork the core and send pull requests for Thanks, On Saturday, 22 October 2016, ken-bem notifications@github.com wrote:
Terence O'DonoghueCreative Little Director Email: terence@creativelittledots.co.uk Office Hours: 9.30am - 5.30pm, Monday - Friday Support: support@creativelittledots.co.ukhttp://goo.gl/4zs1tr http://goo.gl/wd4foK http://goo.gl/DuQFlM This email & any attachment is intended for the named contact(s), or any Creative Little Dots Ltd | Companies House Reg: 9066408 | Vat |
@terence1990 i was going over your project and i see you have implemented some of the things i was woking on for Herber (ACF and Gravity Forms). I will continue developing as an addon to the current herber and you may take ideas to keep adding to WP kit and I could take from it. Lets hope one day we can make that powerful RAD! |
Happy new year everyone. Feedback is welcome :-) |
Hi @rameshelamathi, i am interested in helping you further herbert. But i dont think it should be stripped down, but to be refactored and expanded. As a Java developer i think if we take on this task we should model it in the way of the Spring Framework |
Great @ken-bem |
@rameshelamathi let me know when will we start |
@rameshelamathi @ken-bem We would happily accept any Pull Requests, especially if they concern testing, refactoring, cleaning etc. Probably the biggest issue for the projects rapid development right now are the missing tests. |
This project is probably the closest to a 1000 hour head start that I've seen for plugins and it has the most structured approach to development as well. There are some things that could be shored up, but it seems to be working well-enough. I disagree that it is bloated, but I understand why @jasonagnew feels that way. For me, it would be helpful to have more examples of how to use the config file and the Helper function. I'm finding that either there are bugs (doubtful) or it's just not clear given the current documentation (which is nicely laid out). It would also be VERY useful to compare how WP recommends plugins be coded (this Settings API tutorial seems "official", but the code produced is not terribly organized) and how the same thing would/could be done with Herbert. I'm also not terribly fond of twig. I don't see how I can call any of the WordPress translation functions inside a twig template (maybe someone can lend a hand?). But in general I think this is a promising project. |
Has this project been abandoned? Do you need help tackling issues or moving forward with new features? It’s a great project and it would be a shame to see it fall by the way side.
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