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Ukrainian Hryvnia, suggestion for skeleton change #350
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Oka thanks! I'm working on it. Hryvnia, however, when it has a meeting of 2 horizontals and a diagonal dangerously close to horizontal, is different from the near-perpendicular intersections of Yen, Euro, and most others. $'s bar and diagaonal are dangerous, but spreading the problem vertically and modern dropping of the second bar helps, and the later will help Hryvnia. |
Hi Viktoriya, |
Hi David, I agree that everything is a design decision, but even while currencies are not used together in a same manner as letterforms they (imo) still need to share formal and construction choices. I noticed, that way trickier and more dense skeletons than Hryvnia use solutions with continuous strokes in RobotoFlex as long as weight and width allow that. and for the tightest / darkest appearances there are simplified variants. Maybe the solution for Hryvnia can be also using two constructions? The most standard version approved by National Bank of Ukraine is the version 1 from my previous post: Here is set of good examples of Hryvnia referencing italic г. Off course it's easier to apply in typefaces which are closer to calligraphic models, but I would say it's the same issue as with Bulgarian г, things are just getting slightly more intense because of the crossing bars. https://www.myfonts.com/foundry/AndrijType/ Regarding the level of openness of the terminals, this is a design choice which depends on the typeface, and also an authors decision. What is more important — to make a reference to italic г instead of Latin S. Indeed, Cyrillic italic г sometimes needs to be more open than Latin s. Also placing the bars takes space. Here are some links with examples of a single bar. As you will see the single bar solution can be found more often in display typefaces, however in my view there is nothing wrong with using it in text fonts, I used it for LL Grey Cyrillic (image from my first comment). This version keeps strong presence of г and writing logic. In some currencies substituting two bars with a single one impossible for identity reasons, because it will mean a different currency sign, but there is no risk of confusing Hryvnia with something else. I hope this helps, let me know if you have further questions. |
27 new designs of hryvnia delivered to SO. |
Hi David, |
Hi Viktoriya,
Apologies for interrupting, but I have to disagree with this direction. I
strongly recommend not to go further neither with this full S-shape
direction nor with one crossbar-for-smaller-sizes one.
Such a complex designspace as RobotoFlex with so much flexibility has to
use a more scalable design. Heavy styles, Compressed ones etc — we need to
keep them in mind before rethinking this.
My advice would be to step back to our original design and trust our
expertise on this
With all respects to a shorl tradition of a Hryvna design and to my old
friends Andriy and Dmytro with their experiments, which I admire
Cheers
…On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 7:39 PM Viktoriya Grabowska < ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi David, thanks for the images! Hryvnia is shaping pretty nicely. I have
a few brief comments, and can have a look once again later when you need me.
In opsz 144 | wdth 100, 151 | wght 100 the curve which I marked is a
little too convex.
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/78556166/168134774-205f885d-7fa1-45ef-9a02-585fa8f07c7c.png>
In wdth 25 the narrow construction allows for a long diagonal, which works
nicely and helps to avoid this issue.
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/78556166/168134882-0fe1bef0-a8c0-4575-af01-e0e949a00124.png>
Making the curve less convex helps lightening the joins between the curve
and horizontals. This will not matter so much in light weight, but can be
helpful already in wght 400 in opsz 144. It is also okay to shift away from
S shape, since Cyrillic -г has slightly different gesture and curvature.
One of the possibilities is to move extremum points as I tried to show on
my sketch. And then (if needed) in order to harmonise the overall shape, to
make the curves of the terminals slightly less convex.
[image: IMG-9108]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/78556166/168131019-c1d45335-b896-4c60-bada-44f4edcc16b3.jpg>
opsz 144 | wght 1000 works pretty well. There is some darkness on the
intersection of diagonal and the bars, but this is impossible to avoid.
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/78556166/168132867-801aef25-fbe1-4d76-b320-2d3f24fdb57d.png>
Sometimes I separate the paths (on the selection on my sketch) in order to
achieve even thinner diagonal or let the white bite deeper into the darkest
spots. However this solution might not be a good fit for such a broad
design space as RobotoFlex.
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/78556166/168132743-c34b7f73-c13f-48db-b33b-d42d8bbf4b5e.png>
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I'm sorry to say that I think the original design's form, while worth retaining as an alt since it is complete and is an excellent design, is too unconventional for the purpose of this project. To confirm, my personal long term ambition is for Roboto Flex to replace Roboto everywhere, and so @dberlow has worked to retain the design of Roboto and only adjust minor details (like This uses the "central bank" form, even in the heaviest weight. |
—Added hryvnia.rvrn to all masters —Compatibilized and fixed some curves —Added rules to the designspace to RVRN —Updated VF
Alright, added hryvnia.rvrn to the whole designspace for all masters to be compatible, updated the VF, and added to the designspace with the following rules:
Then whatever opsz, wght, or wdth we all decide, I can only update the designspace with the numbers you tell me and it will be done. Let me know which numbers and locations we prefer. |
The current drawing of Ukrainian Hryvnia with a gap would be justified if other currencies would have similar solution. (I made this image with changed Yen and Euro only to illustrate this issue).
But since that's not a case of Euro or Yen in Roboto Flex, Hryvnia shouldn't have a gap as well.
The base for Hryvnia is italic г skeleton crossed by the horizontal bars, and the presence of г is pretty essential.
There are two variants of skeletons which are both acceptable.
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