Difference between Hero6 and Hero7 data? #47
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I this will take some investigation time. Yes, they should be the same. I expect it has something to do with the new Hypersmooth stabilization which runs the Gyro at a much higher frequency than the data it stores -- all that sub-frame, rolling-shutter compensation, goodness comes from gyro data significantly faster than the 200Hz stored. I'm guessing the HERO6 used IMU based hardware downsampling, but HERO7 might be doing it downsampling elsewhere (this is what I will try and determine.) |
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Thanks for the quick reply! It certainly feels like what you are saying is the case when you look at the differences in gyro streams. I ran another test with the rig pictured below and uploaded the files in the hope that it might be helpful to you. Thanks for looking into this! |
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Is there any sort of filtering/averaging I could do to the hero7 gyro data improve it to the level of the hero6 you think? Or is 200hz way too low-frequency to get any signal out of the noise? |
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Sorry for the long delay on this one. I first set up my own HERO6 to HERO7 IMU comparison and didn't find significant differences. I was expect to be a noise or a downsampling issue, then I tested your sources, which I should have done first. The only issue I'm seeing with your HERO7 data has a larger than average gyro bias. Could this be throwing off your comparisons? |
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Thanks again for looking at this! I'm no expert but it doesn't feel like a bias thing to me, because If I shoot a clip while walking, or riding a bike, or any other application that doesn't involve strong mechanical vibrations everything looks virtually identical to the hero 6. I've had some friends send me some drone clips from their Hero7s and the issue is consistent with their cameras as well. If I take a few seconds from both my uploaded test shots and graph the differences you can really see the problem clearly, especially if you look at the Yaxis (yellow line). (hero7 is the top image and hero6 is the bottom) |
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Here's a much better way to show the issue. If I overlay an artificial horizon on the drone clips you can really see what I'm talking about. before I take off when I'm turning and rotating the cameras by hand you can see the horizons looking very good in both clips, but after takeoff when the vibes start you can see Hero 7 slipping and sliding all over the place. The broader motions are still doing what they should which really makes me think it's not a bias problem but a filtering or down-sampling one as you said earlier. I don't suppose there's anything I could do to improve this by conditioning the data somhow? Or would this need a firmware update to be be fixed? https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CdtANhsY2ef4x67CzV9AxkLdbiBAR7Xs |
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I have not found a good fix for this. The IMU data stored with H7 is simply not a clean as H6. I have reported the bug, and hopeful it does not reoccur in future cameras. |
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Thanks very much for your time on this! Is there any chance this might be patched in the next firmware update? |
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I don't know that is can be, it might be a limitation of the IMU hardware configuration which was designed for the best results in Hypersmooth. |
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Thanks again for the info! That's interesting. From this teardown here https://gethypoxic.com/blogs/technical/gopro-hero7-teardown the author claims the only hardware changes from the Hero 6 to the Hero 7 are the Apple MFI, The 2GB of ram, and Pericom PI3USB9281 charging component. If that's true, does't it seem possible that Hero 6 style of gyro recording may work on that configuration? |
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The IMU parts might be the same, but the wiring for the clocking is different. Something (beyond my understanding) was changed with the IMU to support Hypersmooth, it was more than just the increase in memory. |
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Also very interesting. Thanks! |
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Different wiring or different algorithm ? |
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Just wanted to ask one more thing before I give up. I understand that "Something (beyond my understanding) was changed with the IMU to support Hypersmooth". What if a firmware update was produced that only changed the shooting modes where hypersmooth is NOT active. Would it be possible to use the Hero6 style gyro recording in only those modes? Or is this a hardware thing that's beyond what the firmware can control? |
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I believe it is a hardware change beyond firmware control. |
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As far as I can tell, the HERO7 consumes all the gyro data and then adjusts
the "timestamp" before it passes to the EIS algorithm. The HERO6 doesn't do
this step. The hardware is the same but how the HERO6 and HERO7 consume the
gyro data is much different. To me it appears like a low pass filter or the
ODR is slower on the HERO7. David could compare
"drv_gyro_bmg250_get_data_samples" and tell us what is different.
…On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 8:10 AM David Newman ***@***.***> wrote:
I believe it is a hardware change beyond firmware control.
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Any update on this out of curiosity? Since the GoPro itself is still getting all the data, is there any way it can be downsampled in the firmware before outputting it? Am I thinking about this the wrong way? I would think if Hypersmooth works as well as it does without funky vibration-dampening mounts it'd be possible to get some cleaner gyro data to use, maybe via a firmware update that adds some additional downsampling and/or filtering in non-stabilized modes. Would it be possible to just output gyro data at a higher frequency and do filtering in post? Just a thought, probably spewing nonsense. I and many others would love to have a Hero 7 with usable gyro data out, I don't want to have to downgrade to a Hero 6. |
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So what's the final result @dnewman-gpsw , @hypoxic , @tenten8401 , @kikislater , @noobtoob4lyfe I'm excited to hear some good news 😁 |
What about change the gyro or make fw can do filter the gyro data as need rsgo then maybe it possible , right ? |
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The problem isn't filtering it, it's that there simply is not enough data.
GoPro is unwilling to fix this so there is *nothing* you can do. You have to
buy a 6 or an 8-10
On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:48:42 PM EDT Moksh wrote:
> No go unfortunately. Ended up just buying an 8 :( Oct 16, 2021 7:12:46 PM
> Moksh ***@***.***>:
[…](#)
… > So what's the final result @dnewman-gpsw[https://github.com/dnewman-gpsw]
> , @hypoxic[https://github.com/hypoxic] ,
> @tenten8401[https://github.com/tenten8401] ,
> @kikislater[https://github.com/kikislater] ,
> @noobtoob4lyfe[https://github.com/noobtoob4lyfe] I'm excited to hear some
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What about change the gyro or make fw can do filter the gyro data as need
rsgo then maybe it possible , right ?
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@tenten8401 we can change fw , right ? So why we need gopro to solve this problem Anyway I bought this camera and now in my hand , so what can I do ? And it's naked 😅 , if I sell them loss me even without used any other way to use rsgo ? |
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No, we cannot change firmware unfortunately. It's signed firmware and will not
accept any custom code. All you can use is hypersmooth or gyroflow with an
external blackbox logger.
…On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:56:02 PM EDT Moksh wrote:
@tenten8401 we can change fw , right ? So why we need gopro to solve this
problem
Anyway I bought this camera and now in my hand , so what can I do ? And it's
naked 😅 , if I sell them loss me even without used any other way to use
rsgo ?
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Yeppp thanks mat 🙂 |
Hello and thanks again for making all this great work available.
I'm noticing that the quality of the gyro data in the GPMF varies from the Hero6 and the Hero7. If you compare the two camera's gyro readings under a high amount of vibration (for example when attached to a drone), the Hero 6 gives higher quality data that matches the video more closely than the Hero 7 which will look much more noisy and error-filled. I assume this isn't a problem with the gyro itself because the fantastic Hypersmooth stabilization of the hero 7 has no problem handling the same vibration of the drone. Is there some sort of filtering that happens to the gyro samples before they are written to GPMF in the Hero 6 that is not active in the Hero 7? It was my understanding the hardware of the two camera was identical with exception of more ram for performing the hypersmooth stuff. Very curious about this. Thanks!
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