Religion overhaul #74
Comments
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Finished writing this. Let me know what you think! |
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Looks good except for Sul's Angelic favour. Wouldn't having the level four Israfel be your ally be too over powered? |
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It would be powerful, but in order to get there, you'd need to sacrifice 6 levels of powers. Add to that the fact that you've apparently not defeated Israfel, and you're missing 10 levels out of 13 levels. In other words: yes, you get a powerful ally, but the only way to make this happen is to be very weak yourself. Still -- maybe it should be changed, especially because its usefulness is so dependent on which monsters have been placed in the dungeon. I'll think up something new! |
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Do not forget to take into account that, if the Arena is generated, one
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The proposal sounds fun, and has the benefit of greater continuity with the current state of affairs than other proposals have had. A note on angels: In the US, the term angel conjures something that's pretty hokey, thanks to a legacy of Christian iconography, children's bibles, and Hallmark cards. So I suggest that we work with the ancient style of angel (e.g., when the seraphim--"burning ones"--had 6 wings). Israfel is an Islamic angel, and his description from Wikipedia helps make the distinction between today's soft-focus youth pastors in togas and the angels of the past:
If we wanted to really have fun smashing our mythos(es) together, we could have the cosmic horrors be merely really powerful angels... Remko mentions the Arena as a way to get back sacrificed powers (or that's how I interpret the comment, but possibly the Arena mechanics have changed since last I participated in the discussion): I think that going after a power you sacrificed to a god via the Arena ought to either a) be impossible, or b) earn you a punishment from the god. Re Dannii's point: Israfel could also be considered a corrupted angel and thus not on Sul's list of allies. Maybe Malygris hopes to get Israfel to blow the trumpet on his behalf...if only they could find the damn thing. But that doesn't help with the issue that Victor points out, that there aren't really enough angels in the game to make the angels-as-allies power of guaranteed utility. |
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On the note on Angels: that is exactly the reason I mentioned the angel On the Arena: I think that thematically the Arena could be some form of On the angels-as-allies power: Perhaps we could say that, if the angel 2013/5/15 ektemple notifications@github.com
Met vriendelijke groet, Remko van der Pluijm Postgraduate Student Logic, History and Philosophy of Science at the |
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Ah! I agree, and my conception of angels has nothing to do with youth pastors in togas. When I think of angels, my first thought is of the opening lines of Rilke's Duino Elegies, which are (first in German, then in an English translation): Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the Angelic And I would like to stress that I called Sul the goddess of purity, not the goddess of good. That was a very deliberate choice. Purity is a terrifying ideal. So I think I completely agree with you in terms of theme; I'll come back to the technical details later. :) |
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Great, glad we all agree on that! I was fairly certain that we did, but the name Angel of Compassion had me wondering! I love the idea of Sul as goddess of purity, in the sense of fire as the great purifier. |
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Yeah, we can talk about the name of course; but the angel of compassion would start out as creature of blinding radiance that you are blinded simply by seeing it. So not a youth pastor either. |
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I think the name is probably fine, especially when combined with a description in-game. But I do notice that some people call Barachiel (Barchiel, Bark'iel, Buraqil) the angel of compassion, and he sounds pretty cool--he is the angel of lightning, which fits nicely with both blinding radiance and badassery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barachiel Of course, the Roman Catholics give him a rose and a bread basket, but that need not influence us! |
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I don't know why they used "angel" to describe the horrors in Neon Genesis Evangelion - they are barely sentient alien beings that want to destroy humanity, and they're also immune to normal firepower. Some are eldritch horrors, but others would have a sort of elegance, if they weren't trying to destroy you. Here's a fun short clip showing Ramiel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8HqgM1qcdo And whenever people meet angels in the Bible the consistent reaction is fear. Another idea could be that each god would have its own angel - this would account for their differences. Sul's power could then give your control over the other gods' angels. Perhaps your god's angel would automatically be your ally. |
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Regarding Angels in NG:E: this has to do with the whole biblic thematic in By the way, Azrael is an Angel of retribution in Islamic and Sikhism. 2013/5/16 Dannii Willis notifications@github.com
Met vriendelijke groet, Remko van der Pluijm Postgraduate Student Logic, History and Philosophy of Science at the |
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The biblical theme in NGE is really much more of a flavour, the creators have said that the symbols were never overly logical, and were mostly included because that's what cool anime in the mid-90s did. If we can make the mythology of Kerkerkruip logical then great, but I don't think we have to stress too much, it isn't that logical now. |
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I fully agree with you on that point. On Victor's God choices: Great! One could (if one wanted to) see the 2013/5/16 Dannii Willis notifications@github.com
Met vriendelijke groet, Remko van der Pluijm Postgraduate Student Logic, History and Philosophy of Science at the |
ghost
assigned
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What is the relation between Malygris and the gods? Does he worship one? Does he aspire to be one? Do they support him or oppose him? I think it would be good to not leave their relationship unspecified. The relationship wouldn't have to remain static either. We could have Malygris serve a random god, with four sets of corresponding strategies. |
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I like the idea of Malygris serving a random god, perhaps even making it 2013/5/22 Dannii Willis notifications@github.com
Met vriendelijke groet, Remko van der Pluijm Postgraduate Student Logic, History and Philosophy of Science at the |
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Thematically, this would also mean that one altar would be shining and well 2013/5/22 Remko van der Pluijm remkop@gmail.com
Met vriendelijke groet, Remko van der Pluijm Postgraduate Student Logic, History and Philosophy of Science at the |
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Hm, thematically, I think that Malygris challenges gods, he doesn't serve them. I don't actually see much reason to spell out the relationship, because dungeon crawlers will never withstand much scrutiny if you try to get them to make narrative sense! But I figure he built Kerkerkruip's dungeons as political sops to the gods, to buy himself space for his magic. |
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All the gods have been implemented! There's still stuff to do; I'll make a little list at the top of the issue to remind me of it. I'll be away for the next three days, so I won't be finishing this stuff until Sunday at the earliest. |
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I've made the Temple of Chton and removed the Temple of Isatzo. I've temporarily given the former the map-label of the latter. What is the workflow here? Do we need a new tile for every room? If so, how are they made? |
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Each room doesn't need a new tile, but each needs its own label. (The label is a small image file containing the "text" of the label, i.e., a short version of the room name.) I autogenerate room labels (and all of the other map text, e.g. monster names and avatars) via ImageMagick script commands. It's probably easiest if I make all of the labels for now. Maybe we could just have an always-open issue for them, with requests for labels appended as they're needed? That way, I'd get an email that new labels are needed, and we can use checkboxes to track progress. Part of the release protocol could include include checking this thread for any missing labels. Proposed format:
Or maybe GitHub offers better tools for this sort of task-tracking? |
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Sounds good, Erik. I have implemented sacrificing! There's still some small stuff I want to tweak, but basically this means that the religion overhaul is complete and can be tested. |
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A new undead has been added: the malignant chanter. This monster boosts the attack and damage of all other undead as long as it remains concentrated (by an amount equal to its concentration). Very feeble alone, very dangerous with other undead, very, very, very usefulif you're doing a Chton/lich build. |
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A new super-undead has been added: Drakul. The legendary vampire makes an appearance, and he is nigh invincible: he regains all damage he does as health, and he has a special reaction where his attacker has to succeed at a difficult mind roll or be "persuaded" to attack someone else. If Drakul kills the player, there is a 50% chance that he'll adopt the player as a child, turning him into a vampire and leading to a technical victory (since the two of you supposedly go off and kill Malygris, but you are enslaved to your sire). |
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Could Drakul be a candidate for my Arena of the Gods (#86)? |
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Why, yes, I think he could! |
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Closing this. A new angel is already issue #25. Making Malygris worship a god is something I'll probably defer to Kerkerkruip 10. (Unless someone else wants to take a shot at it.) |
TO DO LIST:
This has been previously discussed in issue #57. I'm makign a new issue because I want to make a specific proposal.
There are four gods (more could be added later). Whether a god can be converted to in a specific game depends on whether that god's temple is in the dungeon or not; there might be between 0 and 4 temples in a game.
Isatzo, the god of balance, will be removed. Instead we have: Aite, the goddess of slaughter and chaos; Nomos, the god of law; Sul, the goddess of purity; and Chton, de god of death.
In the temple of a god, you can sacrifice the powers that are currently granted. You gain favour equal to the level of the power you have sacrificed -- but of course, you do lose the power in the proces. Once you have sacrificed to any one god, it is no longer possible to sacrifice to other gods -- religion is an exclusive affair. New bonuses are gained when specific levels of favour are reached: 1 favour, 3 favour, 6 favour, and 10 favour. (Theoretically, you can sacrifice up to 13 favour in powers, but that would be stupid and probably impossible to pull off. In practice, the 6 favour level will probably be the max that it is realistic to aim for, and even that will be quite hard.)
Praying will be removed. In order to differentiate powers and favours, all favours will conform to these two rules:
In addition, once you worship a certain god, that god will start interfering in combat of his/her own accord. The strength and frequency of these interventions will depend on the level of your favour.
AITE
Intervention: the effects of current Aite praying, but only the destructive forms (not the concentration giving). Frequency of the interventions and the probability that they damage enemies rather than the player goes up with favour.
Favour 1: Bloodlust 1 (when you have done damage with an attack, you get +1 attack and +1 damage on your next action).
Favour 2: Survival instinct (+2 defence when at less than 25% health), one time faculty randomisation (your faculty scores are redistributed randomly, but the average goes up slightly).
Favour 3: Bloodlust 2 (when you have done damage with an attack, you get +2 attack and +2 damage on your next action); one time donation of two scrolls of the blade.
Favour 4: Gift of chaos (your body, faculties, and stats mutate in a random way -- generally quite favourable, but potentially debilitating -- she is the goddess of chaos after all!).
NOMOS
Intervention: the effect of current Nomos praying -- he suddenly announces your next attack. Higher favour increases the frequency of this intervention, and the bonus on your attack, which rises from +1/+1 tot +4/+4. Nomos's favours empower this play style where you need to wait for the right moment.
Favour 1: You gain 1 protection effect (like reading a scroll of protection).
Favour 2: Gain 1 point of physical damage reduction; the Inquisitor's hood (a hat that protects you -- somewhat -- from losing concentration).
Favour 3: Gain 1 point of physical damage reduction; the Malleus Maleficarum (a powerful hammer that deals a lot of damage and is quite accurate, but doesn't benefit from tension).
Favour 4: Gain 2 points of physical damage reduction; the Tome of Law (reading it will show you a number; all attack/skill rolls in the game will now be this number, until you read the book again and another number is shown).
SUL
Sul cannot be worshipped by undead.
Intervention: protection -- Sul sometimes protects you and your allies from harm.
Favour 1: auto uncurse (all cursed items you have or get are uncursed); the deathly scrolls are identified for you (death, summoning, ghoulification); you are forbidden to use the deathly scrolls (if you try to do so, they'll burn up in your hands before they take effect, and Sul deals a lot of damage to you); immunity to angelic radiance.
Favour 2: Radiance +1 (sighted enemies get -1 attack and defence against you; angels are immune); Undead slayer (+ 2 attack/damage against undead).
Favour 3: Demon slayer (+ 2 attack/damage against demons); blesses weapon.
Favour 4: Radiance +2; one time cure of ment addiction.
CHTON
Intervention: Cold of the grave -- all non-undead beings in the location are damaged, like a scroll of death. Frequency improves with favour.
Favour 1: the deathly scrolls are identified for you; you gain protection from deathly effects: scrolls of death and the cold of the grave intervention deal less damage to you; you gain a deathly scroll.
Favour 2: You gain the ability to switch to ghoul and human form; one time gift of deathly scrolls.
Favour 3: You gain the ability to switch to ghost form (a relatively weak form in which all attacks have 50% chance of passing through you); one time gift of deathly scrolls.
Favour 4: You gain the ability to switch to lich form (got to think about it, should be powerful); one time gift of deathly scrolls; all undead start following you.
HERM
Intervention: none yet.
Favour 1: Two Hermetic scrolls (always at least one of knowledge / mapping, with the otherlikely to follow soon; later Hermetic scrolls are psycholocation, teleportation, and a lot of shadows).
Favour 2: Two Hermetic scrolls, +1 permanent bonus to hiding.
Favour 3: Three Hermetic scrolls, the magical space, increase hiding bonus to +2.
Favour 4: Three Hermetic scrolls, the caduceus, and increase hiding bonus to +3.
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