Umbrella issue - Project Management improvements for sig-contribex

[mattj-io]

This issue will track the development of project management tooling/workflow for sig-contribex. As I understand it, we currently have a number of issues

1. Github's kanban's are not necessarily very effective for non-code project management - no dependency tracking, lack of subtasks etc. etc.
2. Issues in this area can be defined too broadly, making the definition of done difficult to assess
3. There is currently no resource tracking, so it's difficult to get a feel for forward progress or the velocity capabilities within a given timeframe
4. Partly due to 3, it's difficult to set manageable goals over a specific timeframe

[mattj-io]

/sig contributor-experience

[mattj-io]

First open question as devils advocate - why use github for non-code project management ? It doesn't have the full set of features that something like Trello or JIRA would have. Non-devils advocate, I can also see the benefit of keeping everything for the project within a single system.

[mattj-io]

Within the github ecosystem, there are a number of addons which improve the project management capabilities eg. codetree and waffle.

Waffle ( https://waffle.io/ ) is free for open source
Codetree ( https://codetree.com/ ) costs 💵

Both add sizings, dependency tracking etc. but are focused unsurprisingly on software development rather than non-code planning.

[mattj-io]

Aside from tooling, the issues I can see already are

1. Need a definition of sizing and some way of allocating it
2. Some issues are too widely defined and need breaking down into smaller units
3. Discuss having a deliverable timeframe ( per Contributor Summit was suggested in Seattle ) and plan only for that in order to timebox work
4. How to handle dependencies other than manually noting them

[parispittman]

Wanted to document my excitedness for organization lol :) thank you @mattj-io

Will thoroughly read and respond in a few hours

[spiffxp]

ref: kubernetes/sig-release#432 for the GitHub/Airtable stuff I just mentioned in contribex meeting

[idvoretskyi]

/cc

[idvoretskyi]

Within the github ecosystem, there are a number of addons which improve the project management capabilities eg. codetree and waffle.

Waffle ( https://waffle.io/ ) is free for open source
Codetree ( https://codetree.com/ ) costs 💵

@mattj-io I made a brief review of these solutions, +1 on Waffle!

[mattj-io]

Yeah I liked waffle as well, although I imagine that has to be installed at the organisation level and I'm not sure what the complexity of getting that approved is. It may also be that we don't actually need all that feature set ..

[mattj-io]

for those who missed it, you can also see a live version of waffle at https://waffle.io/waffleio/waffle.io - big ticket features are dependency tracking, sizings, configurable swim lanes and a bunch of other cool stuff.

[idvoretskyi]

Yeah I liked waffle as well, although I imagine that has to be installed at the organisation level and I'm not sure what the complexity of getting that approved is. It may also be that we don't actually need all that feature set ..

For some reason, Waffle is already installed for k/k, but was used a long time ago (1.2-1.3 timeframe).

[zjs]

ZenHub (https://www.zenhub.com/) may also be worth considering, and is free for public repositories. One unique (AFAIK) thing about it is that it uses an optional browser extension to overlay the additional information/functionality directly in the GItHub UI.

[BenTheElder]

IIRC zenhub is blocked in the kubernetes org due to the oauth scopes it requests from users being too broad.

[idvoretskyi]

@mattj-io any updates on this?

Are there any specific issues with the current GitHub Projects workflow that require us to move to a different tool ASAP?

[mattj-io]

Sorry folks, got caught up in real life work and haven't been able to make the weekly meetings for a couple of weeks. Judging from the responses on the mailing list thread our best option is to look at Github Projects workflows as opposed to external tooling. I don't think there are any specific issues other than the features we talked about having are only really available in Github Projects as a bit of a hack. Next steps are :

• Look at the current board and break down issues into smaller components
• Track dependencies through references
• Investigate sizing through labels

I'd suggest we do this as a collaborative effort in real time - and that we take a couple of issues as test items. @parispittman - the best way to do this first step might be to have a separate call outside of the weekly meeting and work through an example, once I've looked at using labels ? I can get to the label investigation today, but will be out of action for a week after that as I'm travelling to the US and have a very full calendar next week with our yearly Sales Kick Off event.

[idvoretskyi]

@mattj-io let's schedule a brief call next week (I assume you'll have more capacity). It would be great to move forward with this.

/cc @parispittman

[mattj-io]

Sounds good. I'm back in the UK from Tuesday.

…

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 04:39, Ihor Dvoretskyi ***@***.***> wrote: @mattj-io <https://github.com/mattj-io> let's schedule a brief call next week (I assume you'll have more capacity). It would be great to move forward with this. /cc @parispittman <https://github.com/parispittman> — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#3079 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AEOH5jTIiQn0CwvtmoewxZAIYGC8qJfoks5vMrXjgaJpZM4Z3vnw> .

[justaugustus]

/assign
/sig pm

[idvoretskyi]

Waffle is not an option anymore - https://blog.waffle.io/farewell-from-waffle-%EF%B8%8F-794da4a72851.

[nikhita]

👋 Are there any updates on this?

Btw...we've seen an increase in the number of GitHub project boards across the orgs. We also have policy around it now: https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/github-management/org-owners-guide.md#project-board-guidance.

[idvoretskyi]

I'd close in favor of #3267

[imkin]

While working on a board with @tpepper it felt that the kanban board is very limited in features.

• It would be easier to triage the issues to the board for tracking, If the automation supported labels to sort the issues into columns. That way labeling the issues will automatically bring it to the board's attention.
• It is difficult to define "InProgress" for non-reviewable issues. Apart from labels/review-state if there was a different way to define the progress it would help. I do not yet have a suggestion on what it could be. If anyone has ideas please share.

[nikhita]

@taragu is working on adding automation around project boards in prow...maybe that could help here?

[parispittman]

@nikhita matt is stepping away for a second to work on some other things right now so I'd close this issue in favor of #3267

[nikhita]

Ack.

/close

[k8s-ci-robot]

@nikhita: Closing this issue.

In response to this:

Ack.

/close

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