Zoom doesn't show up among running apps

[Stokestack]

Describe the bug
When you're in an active Zoom session, Zoom doesn't show up in Alt-Tab. It does show up if you've launched the app and it's just sitting on the log-in screen.

Steps to reproduce the bug

Have Alt-Tab running.
Start a Zoom session.
Try to Alt-Tab between other apps and Zoom.

[lwouis]

Hi @Stokestack! Thank you for sharing this issue!

I tried to reproduce, and it works great. I can see Zoom's home window, and also ongoing video-meeting windows.

Could you please share a video to help clarify what exactly is not working, and how to reproduce the issue?

Thank you!

[SoPat712]

This is happening to me too actually. I've been using Zoom for work, and the zoom meeting windows randomly disappear from alt-tab. This usually happens after a couple times switching between apps, and the window just randomly disappears. I'm not sure how to reproduce it, but I'll look into getting a video that you can watch.

[lwouis]

Oh so it's not as the OP described: it doesn't show up ever. It's more an intermitent issue where sometimes after moving focus around it would not show anymore?

That sounds like an issue with tab detection, which is a very fragile heuristic in the app

[SoPat712]

Is there any way I could send you app logs for alt-tab between some time to another time of me using zoom? I'm not able to reproduce it while having the video recording for some weird reason, I think I'm doing something differently but I'm not sure what to fix?

[lwouis]

I don't have advanced logs in the app, especially on release builds since i want the app to be low impact on the user machine and high performance. So logs are limited in what I can deduce from them.

It's very much an exercice in me needing to understand what situations/steps lead to the issue, and then I would be able to reproduce and fix it.

[Stokestack]

In my case it is as described: When streaming, Zoom never appears in Alt-Tab. It does appear if it's sitting on the log-in screen

Perhaps some of the reports of sometimes/sometimes-not are overlooking this condition. Is it possible to have the log-in dialog up while in a session? Maybe Alt-Tab can detect the log-in dialog but nothing else.

[lwouis]

In my case, I see the login window, and meeting windows. I see every window, all of the time.

@Stokestack you're saying that you never see the meeting windows? That is, fullscreened and not fullscreened? Could you share a video of that? I think we may all be talking about different things when we say "when streaming" or "meeting windows".

Also please all share which version of Zoom you're using. It's probably one of the factors at play here

[SoPat712]

My Zoom version is 5.3.0, which I believe is the most recent Zoom version.

[Stokestack]

I just tried this again. In a Zoom session with a single participant, Zoom did show up in Alt-Tab. It's the only time I've ever been able to see an active Zoom session in Alt-Tab. I never full-screen it, so I can't say whether that has any significance.

When I say "streaming,' I mean that you are communicating with people over Zoom and not just sitting there with the log-in dialog up (which does show up in Alt-Tab).

I'll have to wait for my next multi-person Zoom session to try again.

[lwouis]

Could it be about single-participant vs multiple participants? Could it be about the view selected like grid view, presenter view, etc? In my test I created a video meeting with myself only as a participant, and that window was listed correctly in AltTab. May with other people in the meeting, it wouldn't show?

As you can imagine, it's not easy for me to test this without asking other people to help me make a meeting

[SoPat712]

I've updated Zoom and Alt-tab, and don't have this issue anymore? @Stokestack you might want to look into uninstalling both apps and using something like AppCleaner to remove all files and then reinstall both apps fresh.

[SoPat712]

Nevermind, I just got it again in this current Zoom meeting. I killed Alt-tab, and now it shows up again.

[lwouis]

It really sound to me like some tab detection false positive. Perhaps it's the way the meeting window starts instantly fullscreened? Do you have such a setting, or does it launch as a normal window, then you fullscreen it? Is the window always not listed in AltTab, or is is listed, then after fullscreening it, it's no longer shown?

[SoPat712]

Zoom meetings always launch first as a windowed app, but automatically fullscreen. That may be causing problems? The zoom meeting windows don't show up all the time(the actual meeting), but the main window

always shows up for me. That makes me inclined to think this happens because of the zoom fullscreening windows behavior.

[SoPat712]

I've just looked into it, and found that there is a setting that may possibly be causing the problem.

I've turned it off, and will get back to you if the problem happens again @lwouis. @Stokestack I recommend you do the same.

[SoPat712]

It happened again, even with the setting turned off. Thoroughly confused as to why. It mostly happens whenever a participant starts screensharing, I can look into that more over the course of the day.

[lwouis]

The setting was off, but was the meeting window fullscreened? My guess is that the issue stems from the tab detection code flagging the meeting window as being a tabbed window, thus not showing it. It's my best guess based on the behavior described in this ticket. I can't reproduce locally so i can only guess.

Was the window fullscrened? Could you see it in AltTab originally? Then someone started sharing their screen: did the meeting window change like split into 2, resized, exit and re-entered fullscreen?

You can also check the preference in AltTab to "show standard tabs as individual windows". If that brings the meeting window which was previously missing, then it's a clear confirmation that tab detection heuristic is misbehaving

[SoPat712]

When Zoom started up, the window now starts up as a normal window. I do manually fullscreen Zoom after the meeting is opened, but I'm not sure why that would change anything. When someone starts screen-sharing, the window layout change is from gallery mode with 20 people to one zoom window for the screen-share, and the weird floating sidebar thingy that Zoom creates. Zoom remains fullscreen during this change. I've tested it myself, and breakout rooms also induce this behavior. I've also noticed that the automatic fullscreen preference doesn't apply to breakout rooms, and while I don't use this in any of my meetings, it might lead you back to a solution.

I don't know what a standard tab is, but I'll turn that on today and see if that fixes any problems. Thanks for all the help!

[lwouis]

Here is a video reply

[SoPat712]

Hey, the video was a great explanation of the faults of MacOS. I will try and get a video, but for the privacy of the people in the Zoom call, I will try and blur their faces when I record the issue taking place. Either way, I have turned on show standard tabs as windows, and I hope that that is able to fix the issue!

[Stokestack]

Great video, and very informational for all Mac OS developers and users. Thanks!

This, like so many other UI flaws in Mac OS, arises from the same stupid mistake: forcing all applications to share a single menu, which turns your entire desktop into a single window.

I'm not surprised that full-screening an application essentially makes it into a tab; a tab of the always-present desktop window. I'll spare you my lecture on why every other desktop GUI does windows and menus right, and Mac OS does it wrong. But what you're trying to work around here is a great example.

[SoPat712]

This issue has been fixed for me in the experimental build you posted in one of these threads. I've constantly been using Zoom over the last week or so, and haven't had it happen to me while using the local build in #633 while it happened pretty often with 6.7.1.

It might also be because of the "show standard tabs as windows" option. Either way, the problem is gone for me personally.

[lwouis]

@Stokestack do you still have the issue, or can I close this ticket?

[SoPat712]

I'm actually having the opposite issue. The login window or the meeting window is sticking around even after the app is quit. I can get you a screenshot today.

[SoPat712]

This issue was technically solved when I set the preference show standard tabs as windows though. I can open another issue if you'd like?

[lwouis]

@SoPat712 If you're referring to "The login window or the meeting window is sticking around even after the app is quit", yes please, create another issue. You will have the template to help you fill the issue so that it's actionable for me 👍

[SoPat712]

Ok, I just turned off "Show Standard tabs as windows", and now I'm not seeing Zoom half the time too. So Zoom is just completely broken now. The meeting window sticking around is a problem, along with Zoom not showing. I think both issues should stay open for the time being. I wasn't able to capture a photo of #603 , but I was able to capture #668 twice in a row.

[thirtythreeforty]

I have this problem.

Specifically it happens to me when a window is maximized: I have a multi-monitor setup, and Alt-Tab is configured to show only windows on that screen. However, if a window overlaps one pixel onto the other monitor, it shows up in neither screen's Alt-Tab listing!

[SoPat712]

Please enable this

You may get issue #668 , but it's better to have more windows than no windows at all.

[SoPat712]

@lwouis I haven't had this issue since my last comment 19 days ago. Seeing as no one else has commented, would closing this be a good idea? Zoom updates may have also fixed the issue, no way of knowing unless there's a breakthrough for this issue

[lwouis]

@Stokestack @thirtythreeforty, what do you think? Have you experienced the issue recently?

[thirtythreeforty]

My issue as described is still present.

Namely, windows that overlap screens appear on neither screen's AltTab listing, when "Screen showing AltTab" is selected:

My workaround is to set it to display windows from all screens, but I do not prefer this setting.

[thirtythreeforty]

I would prefer that this setting picks windows not by their bounding box, but by their centroid.

[Stokestack]

Hi @lwouis , thanks for the follow-up. I haven't noticed it with Zoom, although I probably haven't tried lately. BUT... it does happen with TextMate, oddly enough. It showed TextMate was running, but AltTab put it at the end of the list because it thought it didn't have a window; but it did, with an open document.

[lwouis]

@thirtythreeforty I think the issue you have been talking about in your messages is a different issue that this general ticket here.

I would like to implement what you describe, as I think it makes a lot of sense. I'll open another ticket for that

[lwouis]

What's the current situation with Zoom? Is the OP issue still happening, or should I close this ticket? @Stokestack @SoPat712

[Stokestack]

Hey thanks for the follow-up. I haven't tried it recently, so I don't know. Generally Alt-Tab is working well. I'll try to remember to test it on my next call.

[MatthewScholefield]

Heads up, I do still consistently face this issue in a repeatable way. It happens whenever I join a meeting directly via link when the zoom app is initially closed.

When this happens the zoom meeting window isn't in alt-tab. If I quite and re-open alt-tab it will correctly find the meeting window and additionally if I have zoom initially running and click a meeting link it will also show correctly in alt-tab.

Should we re-open or should I make a new issue?

[lwouis]

If I quite and re-open alt-tab it will correctly find the meeting window

This is most likely #1324

[MatthewScholefield]

Hmm, nope. I actually was able to get more specific details so I went ahead and made #2951.