Rename "murmur"

[toby63]

Context: Continuation of discussion in #4046.

Description:
We would like to rename murmur to achieve a better understanding of the relation between Mumble and Murmur, as client and server, especially for new users and contributors.
Thus the new name should (in most cases; see below) contain the word mumble, so people can directly see what murmur is (the Server of Mumble).

It consists of five (potential) points:

• Documentation, Readme's etc.: Use a different term (instead of murmur)
• Packaging: Suggest to rename packages (some distros already do this)
• Binaries: Rename the binaries (at least murmur)
• Coding: internal renaming of mumble and murmur (classes etc.)
• Server Config file: Rename murmur.ini

---

Favored Changes were (State of discussion in #4046):

Part:	New Name:	Old Name:
Documentation, Readme's etc.:	Mumble Server (and similar)	Murmur
Packaging:	mumble-server (already used by some distros (e.g. Debian))	murmur
Binaries:	mumble-server	murmur
Coding:	client and server	mumble and murmur
Server Config file:	mumble-server.ini	murmur.ini

---

Topics and state of discussion are (for now):

Topic:	State:	Majority Concept:	Alternative Concepts:
1. Should the name change at all?	Most participants favor a change so far, but one person disagrees (#4046 (comment)).	Change murmur to Mumble Server or similar form with mumble...	Keep name murmur
2. Should the binary name be something different than mumble-server? #4699 (comment)	Four participants favor mumble-server, but three people disagree.	mumble-server	mumbled - mumble-srv - mumserver
3. Should a prefix be added to the Software and Package name? #4699 (comment)	Most participants disagree, but one person favors a change (@ZeroAbility).	Keep Mumble and use Mumble Server (mumble-server) for Server	Mumble VoIP and Mumble VoIP Server (mumble-voip-server) (by @ZeroAbility)

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What is your oppinion?

Updates:

• Removed "Mumble-Server" in the first point.
• Added state of discussion

[toby63]

My personal oppinion differs a bit:

• Binaries: I suggest to use something shorter like mumbled or mumble-srv
• Server Config file: server.ini

[Kissaki]

I would definitely not abbreviate. It’s better to be explicit and descriptive when it's that little difference.

[toby63]

Many programs I know shorten these things, I see no problem.

That being said; mumble-server is ok, but I would like these better.

[Avatat]

+1 for mumbled as the abbreviation of mumble daemon.

[Krzmbrzl]

Inside the docs we can actually be a bit more brief since the context of the docs is clear. Thus using the terms client and server should be sufficient there (just as in the source code).

[toby63]

Of course.
But the general name is "Mumble Server" (at least no one objected yet).

[Krzmbrzl]

Comment from @ZeroAbility (#4046 (comment)):
I'm going to present a slightly different idea and position about this topic. Since these references to Mumble including the client and the server seemed to mostly benefit Windows installs and we will no longer build the installer with both components, we could use mumble for the client and murmur for the server explicitly. mumble-client and mumble-server are package names and should perhaps have the prefix updated to mumble-voip-... to specify the org name. This way when we describe mumble or murmur we know we are referring to the binary and not the package name.

[toby63]

Overview:
For better overview of the discussion I added the state of the discussion in the first post.

Then perhaps we should move this discussion towards coming up with a valid compromise.

I don't think that there will be any compromise.
You can make a compromise on adequate topics, for example if you want to draw a border somewhere.
This will be about accepting one solution.

And the only open questions I see, are:

• Should the name change at all: for now only one person disagrees, all others think it's good to change it
• Should the binary name be something different than "mumble-server": for now at least three people seem to agree; while all others think that "mumble-server" is the perfect name

It was my intent to make sure everyone here knows what my line of thinking is in this discussion instead of assuming what they may understand or agree with.

Fair enough.

[Krzmbrzl]

Having read the arguments here I think I'd be fine with the mumble-voip prefix for packages ☝️

[toby63]

Don't overcomplicate things...
It's unnecessary and longer than needed.

[Krzmbrzl]

ZeroAbility's arguments are valid.
And when searching for "mumble" in the repos, the suggested prefix will show up anyways. And since there is no other package named mumble, there should be no real confusion. And the fact that our Github repo is named this way is undeniable 🤷

[toby63]

If you look at other software and packages you don't see these double-names, especially not with the software category.
I think it overcomplicates things, solves nothing (because the other mumble is also voip) and will probably be ignored by distros etc. (I would also do so) and thus it is not good for the intention of a general name.

[Kissaki]

Documentation, Readme's etc.: Use Mumble-Server (or Mumble Server etc.) instead of Murmur

IMO it should be Mumble Server as an application name, and mumble-server when talking about the binary explicitly (assuming we do use lowercase names, which seems prevalent). I would not use Mumble-Server.

[Krzmbrzl]

Actually I think Mumble server is even more correct since I don't think that we'd consider "Server" to be part of the name itself (and thus is should be lowercase) 🤓

[toby63]

I changed it to Mumble Server for now.

[CogentRedTester]

If I may share an argument against a name change that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Most of the existing online tutorials for setting up the server already explain to use Murmur, some of which explicitly say to make sure to download Murmur not Mumble. Therefore, changing the name could potentially cause even more confusion and make lots of useful tutorials out of date.

This doesn't necessarily mean the name shouldn't be changed, but I think it should be discussed.

[toby63]

Well it's an argument, but:

1. Most guides on the internet are outdated anyway (not just for mumble).
2. You should in most cases refer to the official upstream documentation anyway.
3. Some things in Mumble already changed or will change: For example the windows installer; some settings etc.

In the end I think it's downstreames responsibility to fix or mark outdated guides and refer to official documentation instead.

[JonGarciaP]

Mumble_Lab
Mumble_Studio
Mumble_Lounge
Mumble_Hall
Mumble_Arena
Mumble_Stage
Mumble_Chamber
Mumble_Lodge (this one made me laugh a little)
Mumble_Den
Mumble_Lair

[toby63]

@Krzmbrzl Don't feed the trolls 😄. Seriously though: Delete request.
@JonGarciaP If you actually mean this, you should think about the purpose of renaming murmur.

[JonGarciaP]

you know what? I don't care, I came here looking for info about mumble and stumbled on this. Just thought I could try to help, now I'm being called a troll and accused of spamming. Neither makes any sense, spamming has a purpose, and providing suggestions isn't trolling. Have not clue what you guys are on but I'm out of here

[Krzmbrzl]

@JonGarciaP Just for clarification: Posting more or less meaningless names without anything else can't really be considered constructive. The discussion is specifically about a new name for the server and yet none of your suggestions seem to have any server-related parts. That's why I was wondering whether this might not be a serious suggestion.

@toby63 Please leave the moderation to us moderators

[toby63]

@Krzmbrzl I think it is senseless to leave it here. @ZeroAbility already said that we should keep information tight.
And I can request what I want. No offense, but thats the situation.

[Krzmbrzl]

No it's not the situation. When interacting here you have to follow the rules and if I ask you to stay out of moderation if clearly a moderator is already looking into the issue, then I don't think this is too much to ask.

[toby63]

The discussion seems stale.
I think it would be useful to have a decision until version 1.4. is released.
Maybe it could be put into a milestone or something similar 🤔.

[gitgrub]

I would not mind if it gets not renamed, I am used to it. On the other hand, people talk about "Mumble", "murmur" is known a lot lesser.

So if we do, choosing mumble-server and mumble-client for the binary files seems a good idea, it makes things obvious. For the ini, mumble-server.ini would make sense.

Using mumbled for the server seems like a problem on windows installs, as there are no deamons. The new names should be consistent between platforms.
While I did not like the longer names at first, mumserver "hides" the word mumble.
The binary file mumble-srv looks ok, but for a strict naming convention the client would be mumble-cli, that sounds like command line interface, will be confusing. In that case I think the client would remain named as mumble.
Introducing voip for the names would fit the github path, but is barely used on the github pages and would make the names even longer.

[JuniorJPDJ]

I would just go with mumble and mumble-client used interchangably in context of client and mumble-server as server name.