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added Latte\CompileException: Modifiers are not allowed here
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Thank you for another BC break released in 2.3.5 version! 😠
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Why BC break?
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This will crash for no reason.
With message "Modifiers are not allowed here.". Why? Where? Wat is problem? .....
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That was not intention, I'll send fix.
Edit: fixed in Latte 2.3.6
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This is the precise reason why not put new features into X.Y.* version. There are untested and you will never know if you didn't break anything. Such report would came from master, maybe few days later, but it would be safe to upgrade. Dou you see and agree that this cause serious problems?
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Mistakes happen. Rarely.
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@hrach 👍
Not only it introduces BC breaks (and rarely is good enough reason to not do it), it also makes it much harder to mantain documentation for stable versions (assuming that someone is actually documenting it)...
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@dg THX.
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@Majkl578 @hrach Who does nothing, can't do anything wrong.
I just tried to fix https://forum.nette.org/cs/22402-nejvetsi-zaseky-v-nette-drobnosti-na-kterych-se-da-viset-i-nekolik-hodin. Nobody cares, I tried it. This is not feature. This is not BC break. I made a mistake, which at maximum can result in few warnings on production when template is compiled. Then I fixed it.
Vaše kecy mám u prdele.
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dg: could you edit your last post to include
/--abusive
? As someone pointed out in Nette forum, it could greatly improve motivation in the community https://forum.nette.org/cs/24090-budte-mili-napomocni-a-konstruktivni#p161568The guy who wrote that forum post actually has the same avatar as you! And even the initials make it look like you're the same person. Uncanny.
This is "komunita nadšených lidí, kteří se navzájem povzbuzovali" at its best!
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@ne0-cz tomu ty říkáš nadšené povzbuzování? Když jediné, co slyším, je jaxem to zase posral?
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In the last 2 weeks, you broke three things in stable version:
Sorry to disappoint you by pointing these things out, but it seems it STILL doesn't bother you at all.
I don't mind you are breaking your own code of conduct, but please, stop hurting the framework users.
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There's a big difference between pointing out and bullshiting.
This is just normal bullshit. In addition, you know very well that nobody writes documentation.
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Quoting others people without proper copy-past is quite unfair.
Why is it bullshit? The fact, that nobody does it, can't make the statement bullshit.
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@dg I think that a good compromise is to simply open a pullrequest, leave it be for two days and wait if somebody spots any problems.
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Maybe you are angry because we are pointing at your mistakes, but please don't get it wrong. We consider such mistakes as TOTALLY NORMAL and usual. That's the reason why it should not go to stable version such early.
@fprochazka I don't think it's enough and it would work well.
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@fprochazka its very hard to get someone to test even the beta version. Pull requests are good to talk about implementation, but not for testing.
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@hrach přepnu do češtiny. Vůbec neřeším upozorňování na chyby, souhlasím s tím, že do stable by neměla věc jít too early (a připouštím, že to občas dělám). Ale vadí mi blahosklonné rady nebo nafukování situace.
Master nebo 2.3@dev používá naprosté minimum lidí, takže vzácně se projevující chyby, jako je tato (tj. projeví se warningem pokud použiješ if uvnitř href
href="{if}..."
), se objeví zpravidla teprve po vydání verze. I přesto, že 2.3@dev průběžně provozuji asi na sedmi projektech.Měsíc to držet v masteru v podobných případech bohužel nepomáhá. Podobně se i ohromná spousta chyb PHP 7 objeví až po vydání PHP 7.0.0. Samozřejmě šanci to nepatrně zvyšuje, jenže na to navazují další věci, takže je potřeba udělat rozhodnutí. A jelikož taková chyba se stává extrémně zřídka, je to asi celkem schůdná cesta.
Co ale situaci fakt nepomáhá, je eskalovat problém, dokonce až k řečem o tom, že to komplikuje udržovat dokumentaci, což je o to divnější, že se ví, že dokumentaci nikdo neudržuje. Pokud po měsíci práce na open source je výstupem pozitivní tvít a negativní komentář na Githubu, tak je to značně demotivující.
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@dg vsechno, co pises, je pravda. Ze minimum lidi pouziva 2.3@dev je take pravda, otazka je proc? Ten zasadni rozdil je ale podle me v tom, ze kdyz upraduji na 2.4., tak vim, ze se mi muze neco rozbit (ano, semver to taky nepovoluje, ale je to proste mnohem vetsi skok a v da se na to zvyknout, ze v Nette to nedodrzujem.) Nicmene je podle me velmi dulezite, aby existoval kanal, kde budu dostavat security a jine fixy, ale pravdepodobnost, ze se neco rozbije, bude co nejnizsi. Ty "nase" komentare stale dokola jsou jen o tom, ze si myslime, ze jde vyrazne aktualni pravdepodobnost snizit.
Co se tyka dokumentace, to je proste problem, ktery asi neumime resit. Mne osobne se osvedcilo, ze v nextras orm mam dokumentaci v projektu. Je to opravdu jen muj nejaky mentalni blok, ale po te, co jsem ji dostal do nejakeho stavu, si jiz netroufnu commitnout novou feature bez zdokumentovani: namatkou: nextras/orm@6f424e6, nextras/orm@13cbe5a, nextras/orm@6e67d0c ... To samozrejme ale s sebou taky prinasi, ze tve nove featury si budes muset zdokumentovat sam. Ceske prostredi je asi prilis sobecke, aby nekdo prisel, a udelal dokumentaci k cizi feature. Na druhou stranu takovyto stav umoznuje nemergnout pull-request, ve kterem dana feature zdokumentovana neni. (=u me se tento stav vyvinul jako pocit k testum - mergovat neco bez testu je spatne, commitovat neco bez testu je spatne)
V neposledni rade necommitovani featur do stablu ma dve pozitiva:
Chapu, ze te sere, ze ti nekdo rika, ze neco ma byt nejak jinak, a pritom nic jineho nedela. Sorry. Na druhou stranu, pochop, ze nas jine zase stve, ze nemuzeme nove verze nette upradovat tak, jak bychom chteli. Proc? Protoze narozdil od tebe vubec nemame tak dobry prehled, co se kde zmenilo, a diky tomu nemuzeme vedet, na co si dat pozor. Malokdo si pri composer update otevre vsechny knihovny, ktere se updatli, a diva se na changelog kazde setinkove verze.
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Co se týče používání devu, já dlouhé roky fungoval zásadně a pouze na devu. Ovšem je v něm poslední >rok takové množství BC Breaků, že nejsem schopnej stíhat to sledovat a řešit to v naší aplikaci. Rád bych to testoval průběžně, ale prostě to nestíhám :-(
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@fprochazka hmm, vím z hlavy jen o dvou:
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@hrach to asi není na diskusi pod commitem. V podstatě místo verzi 2.1, 2.2 atd mohly vycházet verze 3.0, 4.0 a mít setinkovou granularitu pod security fix, což by vedlo k vydávání více verzí a s tím spojené vyšší režie, což prostě už lidsky nezvládnu.
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Podle me to nemas delat ty, je to zbytecne prace pro hlavni hlavu projektu. Jiz davno jsem rikal, ze to chce zavest release managera a management:
https://forum.nette.org/cs/16449-dalsi-vyvoj-nette-organizace-rozhodovani-budoucnost#p116306, https://forum.nette.org/cs/16496-jak-to-bude-dal-s-vyvojem-nette-frameworku#p116687. Co si pamatuju, tak kdysi jsme se taky bavili o tom, ze by to Honza Tvrdik delal. Ted jsme nekolik let dal a bojim se, ze on uz nema moznost to delat (cas).
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@dg problém je v tom, že já hodně používám internals nette :) (ale to je v podstatě můj problém).