Move vs Copy are both disruptive - can it work like other apps? #26
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Don't be so negative @jasonbayton 😉 As per my understanding the feature is is the extension of the instant upload as already been/being implemented by @tobiasKaminsky on the respective feature branch https://github.com/nextcloud/android/tree/extendInstantUpload @tobiasKaminsky pleases correct me if I am wrong. |
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@AndyScherzinger as far as I understand this is when uploading from within the app and therefore is independent of instant upload. @jasonbayton what about a third option "just upload"? Then the file will stay on original position and will not be duplicated? |
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Instant upload has the same options, though they're set once in settings rather than per upload. I'd say "just upload" is how the other apps do it, so absolutely yes please! |
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@jancborchardt any idea how to add a third option?
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Wouldn't a just upload option render the copy obsolete? I don't see the use case as it feels more like a workaround than solution (where solution is just upload). The move could then be considered "upload and delete from source" insomuch as I guess clearing down data in the app will also remove the moved copy (speculating, I don't know if that happens) |
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But isn’t »just upload« the same as »copy file«? Seems just like a wording difference. That’s how it has been since the beginning, till we introduced the »move file« option. |
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No, because copy creates a duplicate on storage, turning 512mb of photos into a gig. Dropbox, box, one drive, Gphotos don't cause this and they »just upload« |
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Soo, what does »just upload« mean? It uploads it to the server but doesn’t copy it to the nextcloud data folder on Android? That’s actually what I assumed »copy« does. We shouldn’t introduce a third setting because that will just increase the confusion. |
Yep! That's the functionality needed, then ideally the two options could be:
Rather than copy/move. From my perspective there's no place for a "copy" option, as that benefits no one. |
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As I wrote this back in the old days... The part in bold is the reason why I thought that this is not useful... Personally I use it like this: all images are uploaded (and moved) and therefore no file fragmentation. |
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If you've uploaded it, why would you need to reopen it from the NC client? It'll already be available in the gallery for sharing elsewhere and a cached thumbnail should be enough to see the file is backed up. There is definitely fragmentation as you're then managing photos both in DCIM and nextcloud if accessing via USB or looking for the photo to upload elsewhere via the files application. Copy definitely doesn't do anything useful for sure, only filling up storage space unnecessarily. |
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I've just opened the app this evening and noticed the options in camera upload have changed:
This looks spot on! However still the same for normal uploads:
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There was no change recently... |
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No you're right, I just realised I have an old version of the owncloud app on my phone where I last saw the copy vs move and confused myself. So the instant upload area was fixed at some point, but the standard uploads remain to be changed. |
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So...What is the conclusion?
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Presumably upload & move would be the same as upload & delete right? Ultimately if you removed the app everything you moved would be in a NC folder that could easily be cleared out without much thought anyway. I just can't fathom any reason why move would be necessary. I'd vote for the options being "upload" and "upload & delete original" Where upload leaves the data where it sits and upload & delete actually removes the file, not just moves it to an nc folder. That would put it well in line with what other apps have done in the past and gives the end user two choices; do I back it up and keep a copy on the SD card, or upload it and free up the redundant space. |
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The problem with your idea is that if you upload it and keep the original file on the source directory you have to remember that you have uploaded it before you delete it. |
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That's no different to other apps, which I think users as a demographic are familiar with. Thumbnails or filenames in the NC app will quickly show what is and isn't uploaded 👍 |
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@jancborchardt @AndyScherzinger @przybylski do we want to go with the new idea? |
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What is the new idea exactly as in a complete description of all upload variants. I am totally pro upload-only-co-copy-no-move option, since this would be what I would like to use on my phone since that provides a simple backup mechanism. I am unsure about the other options as in which make most sense and which one could or should be discarded. |
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Imho, yes. :) |
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I concur! If that means anything :) Will the instant upload options change to match? |
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Of course it does @jasonbayton |
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Uhh? So: for upload I agree that this is for backup (just upload, no delete) or moving (upload & delete) but the in case of instant upload I think we still need move to nextcloud. |
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Totally fine with me, my point is that "just upload, no copy or move" should be available for upload and instant upload. |
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I've read most of this thread, although I'll admit not every word. Originally the "move/copy" feature was largely introduced stemming from an issue I filed on the ownCloud app. It was closed because adding the move/copy option seemed to fulfil the need that caused me to post the issue. However, on actually using the move/copy feature, I discovered that it doesn't cover what I needed it to do, which is closer to what "just copy" sounds like it would (although I prefer "upload"/"upload & delete"). In short, what I wanted before, and what I came online to request today, is n option that will use instant upload to upload all my photos to Nextcloud and delete them from my phone as soon as they're successfully uploaded. I have a large amount of bandwidth and very little storage, so I only want to store my photos on Nextcloud, while both move and copy leave copies taking up my storage. Really, the option to move the image to the apps folder so it still takes up storage, but isn't seen in the DCIM folder is useless to me, and I really don't see who they would be useful for. Originally I thought "move" meant move the image off my phone and over to ownCloud (now Nextcloud) which is why the previous ticket was closed. ANyway, I guess what I'm requesting, is the same as what I think Jason is... an option (on both manual and Instant upload) to shift the file from the phone to the server (presumably by copying it there and deleting from the phone after successfully uploading). |
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So to get up to it again ;-) I understand from all posts that
For me the use case "upload & move to nextcloud app folder" is still valid, especially for images:
So I would suggest this changes for instant upload: Original file will be...
For uploading file from within our app (+ in FAB) and sharing a file from another app to nextcloud app:
cc @PanicDriven (read about your suggestion in owncloud) |
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Great summary and sound right to me! |
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To show three options I would like to use a spinner: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/controls/spinner.html |
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The chosen setting will be remembered |
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PR: #178 |
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@tobiasKaminsky Thank you, this looks amazing! I'm fine without a delete option when sharing to the app. |
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You can test it in the latest beta: https://github.com/nextcloud/android/tree/beta/apks Regarding the move/delete option while sharing: I guess we can check if the file is writeable/deletable and only then show the option. |
Strange: even when I share a file with es file explorer the file is not writeable/deletable. |
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OK feedback: Since we're changing things (yay!) can I ask for a few capital letters on these options? Little things I know, but makes a difference to me. Default seems to be move over copy or just upload, on "first run" of the new selection interface should it maybe show a "Choose how to handle this file" type option? Is there any way of making it look more like a selection menu? It seems rather tight into the cancel/upload buttons. I almost feel it could be disregarded but perhaps that's just me. For the share from other app, no options are given. As copy is the only option available then I'd agree with it staying as-is. Does upload-only work here? Would it make sense to make that the default over duplicating files again? |
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Thanks for your feedback @jasonbayton Open question:
Share from other app: it is not copying but only uploading it, so no duplicating. |
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OK well for PoC giant 👍 Let's see what the others say 😎 |
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Design wise Jan is the guru. The spinner seems right UI element wise. The default and initial value should imho be upload only. |
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So default on first start is "upload only", after that it is the last chosen value. |
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Awesome! 👍 |
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I've installed the beta and it looks good. But when trying to upload & delete or even to just upload nothing happens. I understand this is a very early beta but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one experiencing it. |
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It isn't just you |
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Strange, this happens when you manually upload? Is the source file on an external sd card? I have tried it with an internal storage and it worked. |
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I'm using a OnePlus two (no micro SD). Not rooted or a custom ROM completely stock. Here's what's happening: https://saveitfor.me/index.php/s/dSpGC2adLDui50C |
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The latest RC1 for 1.3.0 uploads fine, and uploads & deletes fine. That's awesome. Now in the absence of @jancborchardt's input for over a month, I'd like to propose these simple style changes on the app wording "as is" (if the design changes later, no big deal):
I've omitted "Upload" from those options because there's a giant blue button with "Upload" written on it. Though perhaps an "Upload options:" header would be useful, and provide more structure to that little area now the obvious radio buttons have been replaced.
Could also put this to community feedback on the help site? |
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Uuuuh 🎉 Love the proposed change @jasonbayton - not a native speaker, so I am unsure if it should be
Keep feels better to me, but that might be a personal thing and as I said I am not a native speaker so I might be completely wrong... |
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Either say the same really, so whatever feels right to you :) |
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...changes will be part of the next RC 😃 |
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OK so without realising I've referred to source as directory but Nextcloud as folder and I have no idea why. For consistency it probably makes sense to have them all as either folder or directory. For the next PR you do 👍 |
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fixed the wording on the development branch, so will be fine for the next RC :) |
Actual behaviour
When uploading, the options provided are to either move the file from it's location to the NC directory or make a copy of it.
For the former and especially in the case of photos traditionally kept in DCIM this leads to fragmentation of files in other places on the filesystem (and therefore harder to manage)
For the latter, copying doubles storage usage per file, with many photos taken the disk usage can get into the gigabytes before the day is over.
Expected behaviour
Like other apps, uploading shouldn't disrupt the location of files nor duplicate everything on storage.
Perhaps investigating and replicating the functionality of dropbox, onedrive or Google photos would be a good place to start.
Steps to reproduce
Context: https://help.nextcloud.com/t/android-copy-vs-move-on-upload-there-has-to-be-a-better-way/631
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