New Apache Camel Logo

[jdorfman]

Claus Ibsen from Apache Camel is looking for a new logo:

• https://twitter.com/davsclaus/status/782916131258499072
• http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/New-Apache-Camel-Logo-td5788206.html

Idea: Camel flying a Apache Helicopter... =p

[elioqoshi]

Got this. What do you think of it?

(Putting in a camel is way too overused. I tried for something simpler)

[jdorfman]

I think the Apache Camel has a new bad ass logo. Great job @elioqoshi !

[Espina2]

@elioqoshi

Its really nice, It looks a bit like a mountain because of the yellow gradient, I don´t know if are intentional or not.

I think in black backgrounds red its a bit to agressive. Maybe you should create the monochrome for that purpose.

[Espina2]

I test to see if I can understand "what it mean" without the naming and Its a bit difficult to understand what is the mean.

[Lekkie]

I can definitely see some camel to drive.....

[davsclaus]

Like the idea of the desert with the sand dune and that they form Camel humbs.
But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

[davsclaus]

I would like to see some ideas with a Camel animal also in the logo somewhere.

I understand the first logo with the simplicity and if its just a Camel with 1 humb walking in the desert, or something.

[tabish121]

For some reason when I first looked at it I imagined the camera panning back to show Homer Simpson snoring in bed.

[jdorfman]

@davsclaus

But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

You are correct. But that is why it took Starbucks almost 30 years to remove the type from their logo.

I would like to see some ideas with a Camel animal also in the logo somewhere.

Anytime I see a full Camel illustration I think Perl. Just saying...

[gillisig]

But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

Once you see it with the word Camel and realise that those are humbs, which I did almost instantly, you can't really unsee it. On top of that I would say that most good logos don't necessarily make sense unless you already know them. For example Nike, its just a stroke but because you know it you instantly recognise it.

I personally think @elioqoshi really did a great job with this one.

[jdorfman]

@gillisig great point with the Nike swoosh.

@davsclaus I just don't want this to happen again: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PIG-3214

[elioqoshi]

I couldn't say it better honestly what the other said :)
A camel's special trait is not the head, rather than its humbs, so keeping it simple helps here.
Also, if you don't want to end up looking like a certain cigarette brand I think we should play along those lines here.

Also... Perl.

When doing this logo I had a "Eureka" moment, so that's usually a good sign. With all modesty, I think it's composed well and the Apache colors even look like the desert sun in the circle, which really fits nicely. I can hardly think of a way this could work better differently

[abouchama]

I agree with you @davsclaus , I think a new logo with Camel Animal can be a good idea. However Great job @elioqoshi !

[elioqoshi]

It can be a good idea, but I don't think it is one in the particular case

[abouchama]

To give you inspiration @elioqoshi , here's my camel ;-):

@davsclaus what do you think ?

[elioqoshi]

Sorry, but how is that related with this particular logo design?

[ullgren]

I also think the proposed logo is a bit hard to connect to Camel without the text. My first reaction was M ?. I would much rather have something even simpler, without the shading, that also works in when printing in only black and white.

If we do not want to use the animal perhaps something that includes the C and that hints on the capabilities of Apache Camel (connecting and integrating things) ?

[kenhara]

This is a nice design, @elioqoshi! Here are my thoughts:

Re: Name/text/recognizability
Because this design is more abstract, I think the text should be a standard part of the logo for now. With use over time, they could drop the text. Alternatively, begin this transition by allowing exceptional use of the logo without text in small formats (e.g. avatar icons).

Re: Monochromatic/simple format
I agree with @Espina2 and @ullgren concerns. What would this look monochromatic on dark vs light background? I think a black/white and white/black alternate versions are needed for their community to approve/finalize this design. I suspect they have their logo printed on conference t-shirts, etc.

Re: The camel
The camel could still be a strong part of the brand, but freed by moving it to a mascot outside of the logo to become more stylized since the logo must be constant and unchanged across mediums. I am thinking similar to OctoCat.

What do you think about this, @davsclaus

[Espina2]

Don't get me wrong I think its a really good start @elioqoshi and a nice work.

Just one more ideia

You can play with type to. Like with letters "AM" you can make something like the example above. It will look more personalized and unique.

This image don't belong to me

[simonv3]

Hey all,

@elioqoshi, could you give a bit more overview of how you got to your current design? Maybe the process and research you did? Other variations you considered? I suspect some people would love to see that process and how your final version came into shape. Why did you choose those colors?

I'm also going to bring in some great logos from recognizable brands that are abstract where the icon in the logo without the words is involved. You'll note that a lot of these are designed by Pentagram, a very well known design agency who - I think it's fair to say - know what they're doing (I basically just went to their website and looked at their work).

And lest we forget.

I also want to point out the "silent" people who thumbed up and hearted the logo:

As I mentioned in IRC (feel free to join us there on freenode #opensourcedesign) I do think the process was a bit obscure and could have been handled and explained a bit better, but I think the end result logo is really good, and people can be really pressed for time and resources - which is a given in any volunteer effort.

[elioqoshi]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, especially @kenhara and @simonv3 feedback was very helpful.
So the reason I didn't go deeper into explanations was simply time related. Most of the ideas I wanted to bring into the logo were recognized by the people though, which is a good sign.

So, here is the process:

• There are 2 types of camels, dromedary and bactrian. They can be easily recognized by their humps; dromedaries have one, bactrians have two. I felt that two humps represent the camel better, especially when not using a full body one. Also, Camel (the cigarette brand) and various other brands which use a camel as a logo, have a dromedary camel representing them. It was an easy decision to go with a bactrian camel here I believe.
• The design of the humps in a logo should be doable using a Sine graph formula if I'm not mistaken:
  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sine+graph&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images
  I felt that this represented well the technical nature of Apache Camel (yes, I basically created a Sine graph - camel humps pun)
• I used the Apache logo color gradient for the background of the logo in such a way it would convey a desert horizon including the sun shining from an angle (notice that it's not straight vertical aligned). P.S: I generally hate gradients, but I think this was the perfect case to use it.
• The wordmark discussion is pretty clear to me: The logo should be used with icon and wordmark in one medium. It's a privilege very few brands have to break this rule and still be recognizable (Nike, Apple, McDonalds, Mastercard, Firefox, etc.). Apart of them being in another league, they have many years behind them to be established in such a way. As said before, Starbucks needed over 40 years to be able to remove its wordmark. That's not a standard we can (or should pursue).
• Other flat or monochrome versions are needed as well of course. Here's what I would suggest, which is suitable for printing on "difficult" backgrounds, sprites, or embossing. Also, a flat version with the Apache Red is an alternative when needed.

• Again, we are free to also have a full body camel mascot (with 2 humps in that case) to accompany materials. This is how we did it for Glucosio (and the mascot is not part of the logo, but accompanies most of our materials in Glucosio):
  https://dribbble.com/shots/2586314-Glucosio-Glucat-Poses-1

That's it in a nutshell. I am sure I forgot something here but I'd be happy to further explain the thought process behind it :)

[arielcarrera]

I like the design of @elioqoshi but I'm agree with @davsclaus too.
Maybe something like this can work:

[elioqoshi]

Why would you want to do that? Randomly suggesting mockups without backing up the reason you support that doesn't help in this case.

I must say thank you for that example, as it's clearly noticeable how wrong the logo can go if we go into that direction.

[tadayosi]

Besides Perl, OCaml (https://ocaml.org/) is yet another camel in the programming space that we may need to avoid confusion 😄

[nicolaferraro]

Personally I like a lot the logo designed by @elioqoshi .

My first impression was that of a dejavu.

Maybe because of the two humps in a circle designed by the "M". After few days I appreciated it much more and started forgetting about Motorola..

My only concern is about the "M" suggested by the logo. The logo is not abstract like the master card one, it suggests a precise letter that has nothing to do with Camel. I think people can experience difficulties to remember the product associated to the logo, because they try to guess something that starts with "M".

I think it will be used a lot without the text, especially when a small-sized logo is needed.

Look at the "Great Eastern Energy" logo posted above. It's not completely abstract, it's a rotated "G" and the counter-rotated paper highlights that. Would you use it for a company named eg. "Big Eastern Energy"?

I'm not a design expert, but I'd have added some asymmetry to the logo, to break the association with the letter "M". Dunes in the desert are asymmetric respect to their axis, as much as camel humps when it runs. Two equals humps are more associated to hills than a camel back: all animals are symmetric when watched from the front, but asymmetric when seen from their left/right side. The particular of the neck being lower than the back is something that few animals share, and my mind associates it immediately with a Camel.

Just thinking loud. The work you've done is great.

[radimch]

Logo should be definitely distinguishable even without the words Apache Camel inscribed inside.
The circle shape is a good idea.

[paoloantinori]

maybe it's just me, but circle based logos make me think immediately to web browsers

[joelicious]

My initial reaction of the proposed Camel logo was that it looked like a M and not two humps. And then I immediately thought of MuleSoft. Perhaps it is just me? But there is a lot there that I like.

Perhaps my comment is just similar to @nicolaferraro

[ugol]

I like this one. Wouldn't be even better if the jigsaw would cover the
circle too?

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Claus Ibsen notifications@github.com
wrote:

The jigsaw is interesting as integration is about putting different puzzle
pieces together, and sometimes when two pieces dont fit together Camel
offers an adapter piece that make them fit together.

I like this symbol.

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[jdorfman]

@davsclaus I strongly believe the focus should be on the color and typography.

[rkettelerij]

I think the typography as @jdorfman suggested in the animated gif is fine. The text aligns correctly with the logo. As for the colors, the black/gray is ok. I'm not sure about the red, on the upside it matches the red in the ASF logo but the contrast with the gray text/camel is pretty big.

Puzzle pieces are a neat idea but the bevel effect on the borders doesn't fit nicely with the flat design of the rest of the logo. I'm interested to see how it would look with flat borders.

[jdorfman]

@rkettelerij thanks but I still would love to get a real designer to make sure it (type) is near perfect. I agree with you on the puzzle pieces. Flat is elegant. As far as colors, I don't know. I would like to see 5 different combinations. I think ultimately the color should be put up to a vote.

[plastelina]

hi all, this is what I was trying to say, I love how the design discussion took off after my comments. Design is not dictatorship of one person, it is a lot of people chipping in with their ideas.

Yes, I agree, the colors and font is not there yet, but look where you got from where you were! Amazing! Red circle normally indicates alerts. @elioqoshi I do not understand why you backed off, if you know how to take a critic you would be happy to take this project on your shoulders and carry on with a feedback, you just left...sad...you could do much more and better, push it, you are just looping and if people do not like it you leave, this is not a designer attitude - strive for better! get better.

Anyway, manic work...I'm happy to help with polishing the ideas over the weekend. I'm graphic designer / art director, who does branding, presentations, print. What I do not like...is people who can't make decisions and take critic and leave the project halfway through. I love what this community is trying to do, although ( sorry for being harsh ) amount of conversation over simple things like LOGO, c'mon you guys can definitely talk a lot, but how about doing. I love the ideas, where the concept of logo went. We are still missing a brief form apache, but we have a lot of random people chipping in ( what for?, sorry for being brutal).

There are a lot of great logo designs through out this treat. Any consensu beside the critic?

[jdorfman]

@plastelina could you please put together some color swatches? Typography variations would be great too. Thanks

[simonv3]

Maybe it's time to either appoint someone to make a decision about a logo and carry it further and refine it (whether that's through a vote or whatever) or just straight up have a vote.

From personal experience if that doesn't get done soon this thread will go on forever or die quietly. This means that someone at Apache Camel is going to have to take some initiative and either appoint someone to make the decision or take the decision themselves.

[mattrpav]

@plastelina agree with you regarding the impression red gives off.

I think the jigsaw puzzle effect makes it "busy" since the camel already has a stylistic origami look to it. Maybe there is a way to incorporate the jigsaw effect as an alternate or as a secondary logo for EIP's, components or other sub-modules?

I liked @jdorfman's approach of getting some colors and typography to review.

[jdorfman]

@simonv3 I agree. At first, I was taking a hands-off approach but it wasn't working. I promise you a new logo will be chosen and this issue will be closed before year's end.

[davsclaus]

@davsclaus I strongly believe the focus should be on the color and typography.

Okay you guys are the design experts.

I like the idea of @mattrpav of the jigsaw can be an alternative logo used for EIP designs / tooling / etc.

Looking forward to see the circle logo with a number of different colors. What about the color of the Camel itself? Its currently dark black/greyish. But would a more natural Camel color be too bad? Or maybe try to change it color to see how bad/good it may look?

From a designer point of view, if the logo is simple with just 2 colors (circle + camel) then isn't the logo simple and elegant?

[elioqoshi]

Yes, I agree, the colors and font is not there yet, but look where you got from where you were! Amazing! Red circle normally indicates alerts. @elioqoshi I do not understand why you backed off, if you know how to take a critic you would be happy to take this project on your shoulders and carry on with a feedback, you just left...sad...you could do much more and better, push it, you are just looping and if people do not like it you leave, this is not a designer attitude - strive for better! get better.

I unsubscribed from the thread as it got way too derailed. To properly receive feedback, one should know how to properly give feedback. It works both ways. Also, please don't judge my attitude or intentions without knowing me.

As every other designer here, my time is limited, so I will avoid posting my feedback if there is no overview of what's happening. I'd be happy to continue once it has been decided whether there will be a decision-maker to decide on the direction, or a vote. Because as of now, neither is happening and we are going in circles, which honestly is a great waste of time.

[plastelina]

@elioqoshi I do not understand why are you getting so hyped up. I do not have to know you to see that you do have a big ego and still do not understand when someone is trying to help you. I never judged you, these are my observations.

Regardless, this thread is about logo design for APACHE not about fighting who can shout louder. I believe that decision maker should be the person who requested the logo. As it works in non open source world.
Client normally post a request, people respond, client makes a decision. This is that simple.

From what I see apache guys aren't happy with what they see, so they keep looking. This is normal design process.

[simonv3]

Hey can we take the conversation about how, where, and why to respond to critique to another place?

Edit: I even created a ticket for it here: #120.

[elioqoshi]

I'm not the one shouting and neither judging someone's ego here, so you might want to follow your own advice.

[simonv3]

I also want to plunk up our Code of Conduct

Be exceedingly kind even in moments of disagreement while working towards consensus

Please take the issue of who has and hasn't responded to feedback off of this issue and to private communication channels. I suggest DMs on IRC, or e-mail, but it's up to you. Feel free to e-mail me directly if you want to talk to me about what's going on here or have any other concerns.

[vemod]

I agree about jigsaw should fit better into the flat design. I am not a designer, just wanted to show the idea what i mean by jigsaw camel. I tried to "flatten" the jigsaw and this is the result. I am sure some designer can do this much better.

[pdurbin]

@davsclaus can you please post this job to the job board at http://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/ by filling out a form by clicking this link as explained at https://github.com/opensourcedesign/jobs#jobs which is linked as "You can easily add a job through our GitHub repository!" from the top of the job board? This is the process that should be followed and I apologize for not jumping in sooner and making this clear. Please link to the pull request here when you are finished. Thank you.

[sharpedavid]

I needed to read some posts in this thread twice to understand what happened:

@elioqoshi and others expected a process where one designer volunteered his time and the community worked with him to produce a design.
@davsclaus and others expected a process where multiple designers contributed proposals and we discussed their merits, probably to choose one by popular vote.

I don't know how to manage this, but I hope my explanation (if it's correct!?) helps us work toward a successful solution.

[simonv3]

Hey @sharpedavid, I think you've hit the nail on the head. We're trying to figure out how to prevent that confusion in #120.

[cjnygard]

Instead of a jigsaw, perhaps construct the camel out of pure tangrams? Using tangrams might also help to abstract the camel a bit and simplify the outline while keeping the camel feeling, and the tangrams also represent the integration while remaining at a higher abstracted "meta" level.

[jdorfman]

FWIW here is a poll I ran on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jdorfman/status/803752933401595904

Only 24 votes but still shows @elioqoshi's design (Logo 1.) is still the most popular.

The official vote will be soon. cc: @davsclaus

[evmin]

I kind of like black and red design version from @vemod - picked v2 for my repo.

[davsclaus]

Sorry for the trouble we may have caused, but a logo change is our
"first rodeo" as the old logo has been in use since the project was
created.

We from the Camel PMC thanks the interest shown here on
Open Source Design and community to contribute to a new Apache Camel logo.

After some discussion, the Apache Camel PMC has decided that the
handling of logo proposals, discussion, vote et all must be handled by
normal ASF procedures.

This entails that a JIRA ticket has been created with the task.
The JIRA has details about the procedure and how to move forward.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL-10543

However for this to conform with the "Apache way" and for the Camel
PMC to have full backing from the ASF and the Camel community we are
taking action to move this over to Apache infrastructure.

We can see the effort put into the logo proposals which has been presented here.
We thank for the enthusiasm and interrest shown to help make a new great logo
for the Apache Camel project.

We would really like if the logo proposals here is submitted to ASF.
For some of the logos there has been some suggestions for some minor changes,
which we hope the designer would amend before submitting the logo.
One example would be the logo with the red circle, which has been
suggested to use a different color.

On behalf of the Camel PMC
Claus Ibsen
Luca Burgazzoli
Raul Kripalani

[jdorfman]

@davsclaus sorry this didn't work out. We wish you the best of luck. Going to close & lock this issue. Thanks everyone.

[evalica]

Related issue #116