Should state-run 'brands' be considered brands?

[good-praxis]

In particular this is about #2009
These shops are all government run because of the specific regulation [source]. They are close enough to be considered generic, but since they're all ran by the same actor, should they be considered generic? There is no tangible difference between this and a company running a franchise.

[ImreSamu]

As a Hungarian - my personal opinion

Remove

• "shop/tobacco|Dohánybolt"
• "shop/kiosk|Nemzeti Dohánybolt"

Keep:

• "shop/tobacco|Nemzeti Dohánybolt" - without a "brand"

[good-praxis]

"brand" in these cases mostly don't actually mean real life brands, it's just kind if this specific kind of shop (or this "brand" of shop)

[ImreSamu]

@good-praxis :

No "hungarian" (local language) version;
so I would not add this 2 tags - to the shop/tobacco|Nemzeti Dohánybolt

• "brand:wikidata": "Q20639040",
• "brand:wikipedia": "en:Dohánybolt",
  imho: the https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q20639040 is low quality wikidata info

the brand=Nemzeti Dohánybolt - maybe useful;
but We (=hungarian community) need to discuss in the Hungarian osm mail list,
( But it takes a lot of time - but If we have a different consensus - I can change later )

it is ok for you?

[bhousel]

Yeah this is in some US states for state run alcohol shops too.
Virginia ABC #969 is one of these

https://www.abc.virginia.gov/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Alcoholic_Beverage_Control_Authority
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7934236

I'm ok with it. They often operate like a brand and have a logo and common identity.

[bhousel]

BTW, if we wanted to get really technical, we could tag with separate brand (the stores) and operator (the govt agency) for these...

   "tags": {
      "brand": "Virginia ABC",
      "brand:wikidata": "??",
      "brand:wikipedia": "en:??",
      "name": "Virginia ABC",
      "operator": "Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Authority",
      "operator:wikidata": "Q7934236",
      "operator:wikipedia": "en:Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Authority",
      "shop": "alcohol"
   }

[matkoniecz]

but We (=hungarian community) need to discuss in the Hungarian osm mail list,
( But it takes a lot of time

I think that it may give good results. Ask here in case of any doubts (I am unable to contribute at Hungarian mailing list due to language issues).

[good-praxis]

So I guess we will put this on freeze for now? Until @ImreSamu returns with a consensus of the hu osm mail list?

[ImreSamu]

@good-praxis :

• I have sent an e-mail to the hungarian osm mail list.
• I have fixed the wikidataid: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q20639040&action=history

need 1-2 days - for the first consensus ..

my proposal was:

keep:

"countryCodes": ["hu"],   
      shop=tobacco
      name=Nemzeti Dohánybolt
      brand=Nemzeti Dohánybolt	     
      brand:wikidata=Q20639040
      brand:wikipedia=en:Dohánybolt

remove:

  "shop/kiosk|Nemzeti Dohánybolt": 56,   
  "shop/tobacco|Dohánybolt": 107,             
  "shop/tobacco|Nemzeti dohánybolt": 157,

[matkoniecz]

Thanks for doing it! Hopefully there will be a consensus on mailing list.

[bhousel]

Thanks @ImreSamu ! We'll wait to hear back.. There is no rush 😄

[bhousel]

Closing here .. yes state-run stores can be considered brands, and we have a bunch of them in the index now 👍