Pictures being viewed are automatically being downloaded

[enoch85]

As it is today, viewing pictures in the Android app also downloads them to the phone memory. It would be much better if the pictures wasn´t saved (would be better to have that as an option in the drop-down menu when long-pressing(?) on the filename) to the internal memory.

I don´t know why they are saved to the internal memory today, but my wild guess is that it has to be saved somewhere in order to be shown in the app. Why not just use a "direct connection" (WebDAV) or store them temporarily while shown, and then deleted when you slide to next picture? This would save both time (don´t have to delete the files that are stored like every week on a phone with lack of memory) and memory of course, as the pictures aren´t saved permanently.

What do you think @davivel ?

[davivel]

The reason to download them is that you don't have to download them again when you want to watch again later. That consumes both transfered data and time.

Finding the right balance between use of storage space, transfered data and time is the hard part of mobile apps. Specially because not all the users have the same requirements.

What exactly are you worried about? That the download target is the internal memory, and not other available storage in the device? This, indeed, is dependent of the device nowadays. And there are several issues requesting improvements and alternatives, that we should accept in this sense.

Is the problem the permanent storage itself? I would suggest in this case to use the web browser to access ownCloud. The key point of the ownCloud native app for Android should be providing permanent synchronization for smartly selected files, IMHO. We are on the way to that (really!). For just browsing, the web interface is a better tool, specially now that mobile theme is much better.

[enoch85]

Ok, I get your point.

I just think it´s sad that the ownCloud app isn´t a whole solution. And by that I mean that you have to use other Android apps to complete the ownCloud app. Yes, that´s sad if you ask me.

If I wanted to save the pictures to my memory it would be better to have that as an option, instead of hardcoded. No, actually I rather not use the ownCloud app at all when browsing. For that purpose ES Filemanager is a much better option.

The ownCloud app is very good because it uploads pictures and movies, other than that - I don´t know. Sorry if I seem a bit harsh @davivel I know you put a lot of effort in this and you do a very good job, but this is just constructive criticism to make the app even better. One exampe is that screenshots are not saved. For that I use Foldersync and sync the folder where the screenshot is saved. I know for example also about #58 and I totally agree that the ownCloud app should take care about CalDAV and CardDAV as well, but that´s another issue. :) In other words, at least 4 different apps - not developed by ownCloud to fulfil my needs. That´s sad. :/

I don´t know how the development is in other countries but in Sweden we have very good data plans, so that´s not an issue. I have i.e. 51 GB free data + free calls and messages every month (~40€) so I don´t have to be worried.

Finding the right balance between use of storage space, transfered data and time is the hard part of mobile apps. Specially because not all the users have the same requirements.

**Please, could you guys make it an option instead to download the pictures?

1. In the settings menu "Download the pictures when browsing them" YES/NO
2. If "NO" then - make it possible to save each picture by tapping it.**

This would be the perfect balance for that as the user can choose by himself.

What exactly are you worried about?

Internal memory storage space, and having to use other apps to complete the ownCloud app. Would be much better if ownCloud could handle everything, /and be user friendly./

Is the problem the permanent storage itself?

Yes, 16GB internal memory(standard on phones today) isn´t enough and runs out of space quickly.

[davivel]

I see your points. Everybody here would like that the app makes a lot more. Indeed, that's our real target :) .

Let me update the title to make easier to browse this issue, and let's focus it in make optional the permanency of downloaded pictures.

But it cannot be put in high priority. Unless somebody wants to contribute implementing it, of course.

[enoch85]

Thanks! :) Hope that this will be delt with soon anyway. At least before 1.6.

[stefan-niedermann]

i maybe have another solution: download and keep the files while browsing, so if you go back, you don't have to download it again (like it is now).
But: If you press android back-button (leave the image viewer), delete the downloaded files.

this would be a compromiss between both solutions, maybe make it optional like @enoch85 suggested - you would still keep a good performance while watching the pictures.

[davivel]

That's a good point to take into account, @stefan-niedermann . I would say it's necessary, indeed, for the use case that @enoch85 describes. Deleting the local file just because the user went to the next one is simply too soon.

[enoch85]

Something like this is what I mean: #597 & #592

"Stream" the pictures and videos instead of saving them at all. Idk how much bandwidth you guys have on your cellphones but my data plan (most in Sweden is like 10GB) is 51GB so I in my case there is no problem, and I think we should let the user deiced whether to stream or download as an permanent option in settings.

[stefan-niedermann]

haha, we in germany are happy if we get 500 MB from our providers... it's not this easy :-/...

[jancborchardt]

This is so it doesn’t take much bandwidth and you can also view pictures again after you viewed them before. Swiping through pictures would otherwise mean loading them again and again. Not a very performant experience and especially bad on mobile networks. This should stay like it is.

For pictures at least. For videos there’s #592

[enoch85]

@jancborchardt I think you are missunderstnding the point.

I don't want the pictures to be downloaded. I have good bandwith.

Just because you in Germany have bad providers it doesen't mean that the whole world is such. ;)

At least make this option as a setting in advanced settings. Please reopen.

[jancborchardt]

There are (and will be) no advanced settings. This is simply a design decision we have to make.

Imagine: You’re looking through pictures, swiping right and right and it of course takes a bit every time a new picture is loaded. Then you want to go back a bit – it would need to load again with your solution. Even with great bandwidth this takes some time.
And then later you’re on the train or whatever and want to view the pictures again – you can’t! Even though you viewed them before.

We need to have ownCloud designed properly for the offline case, and streaming files by default is not a good solution here. The current way of simply downloading them is much better. If you don’t want to have them, they are clearly marked and you can remove them again.

[tobiasKaminsky]

Maybe it is an idea to use bigger thumbnails?
A regular image is ~4mb. In my opinion one never needs this big image.
It would be sufficient to download a bigger thumbnail (~1024x768). This can be displayed full size on most devices without quality issues, but is very small (4mb --> 160kb).
This one can be stored local on the device and be used if you want to share it via e.g. Whatsapp (as it will be resized anyway).
And only if you long-press the image and download it you will get the full sized image.

I have read that iCloud is doing something like that to reduce the local storage size...

[jancborchardt]

Then I guess this can be solved as well with your (@tobiasKaminsky) solution as proposed in #429 (comment) ?

[tobiasKaminsky]

Yes. I think both issues can be solved via the same mechanism.
But I do not know if it is the best way...

[enoch85]

@jancborchardt So you force me, and other users to use 3:d party apps like ES File Explorer to view the pictures as I want? Why not let us choose to have that option or not? It´s a simple checkbox in settings.

ES File Explorer uses WebDAV to view the pictures, and it´s not instant, but 0.5 seconds is OK for me on my 4G network, don´t you think? :) AND, you have your photos on your phone, already - it´s unnecessary to save them in two places on the cellphone - that´s why I think this is an issue. The pictures that you don´t have on your phone can easily be viewed and downloaded from the server Web UI, so what seems to be the problem here?

The ultimate solution would be if you could scroll through pictures in full size by swiping (not downloading), and the pictures you want to download can you just long-press and [save].

@tobiasKaminsky Thanks for making the Android app more usable. Unfortuanley Right now I´m only having it for instant upload. It would be nice if I could use it for browsing as well without having to clean my phone after every time.

[LukeOwlclaw]

As I understand right, the main issue here is: If you save photos in your owncloud the required memory fast exceeds the available memory on current smartphones. And that is true from today's view. Don't we all agree on this? So as I see it, the question is what to do about it.

So far we have two proposals:

1. @jancborchardt ignore it and let the user clean up the SD card (or internal storage) manually
2. @enoch85 do not save downloaded photos

I'd like to add another suggestion:

3. add a storage limit for owncloud offline files. owncloud will remove least recent used (or oldest) files which exceed limit (starred files will be exempted, of course).

Now, which way is the best, I do not know. Why not let users (of course only those who are willing and know what they are doing) try out in real life? They will then report back and then it can be decided which way to go.

And so we are back at needing #655.

@jancborchardt Rigorously denying the need for experimental settings will make some people unhappy. And most probably exactly those who would be willing and are capable contributing to owncloud and making it better.

[tobiasKaminsky]

@LukasReschke Your 3rd suggestion is similar to mine (keep only n files on device), but (and that is a big point) you suggest to download the complete image, which is not necessary when you are only watching the images in the slide show.

[LukasReschke]

yeah, erm. I think you meant Luke and not me ;-)

[tobiasKaminsky]

yeah, erm. I think you meant Luke and not me ;-)

Yes. Sorry. In a different issue I had also the problem and the auto-completion showed you. But there I realized my fault, here not. Lukas <-> Luke it is too similar ;) ;)

[LukeOwlclaw]

@tobiasKaminsky I like your proposal. But I think it is another issue. Shrink images -> #429. This issue is about how to avoid that storage fills up completely.
Indeed, your proposal could be combined nicely with any of the three above (but with just your proposal storage will also fill up completely eventually).

[LukeOwlclaw]

Quick afterthought: @enoch85 You are aware that you can delete whole folders just on your phone, aren't you? Sure that is not what you want, but it is just one extra click. I just opened #712 so you can see which folders use how/too much storage.

[enoch85]

Ok, I won't continue this anymore. I just hope that this discussion have shed some light on the issue and that it's on the roadmap for the future. Until then, I just bought a 32GB Nexus instead, and auto-delete cache/misc (or whatever ;) ) so I have solved the issue using a workaround.

Just for the record, this feature have been requested in 2012 already, and not until now something is happening.

Thanks to all you devs making ownCloud better. I wish I could code aswell because then I wouldn't have to be the bad guy here, I could just make it happen.

[enoch85]

[jancborchardt]

@enoch85 not sure why you posted that screenshot – if you mean the:

I also miss an image gallery rather than having to download every image individually

Then that’s exactly what @tobiasKaminsky works on. See #239 (for the gallery) and the comments he made about only downloading a reduced size of the image.

[ghost]

I still feel this isn't solved. When using dropbox, onedrive etc. I can browse through files and download them to my phone if I need to have it available offline. Now everytime I view a file it's stored permanently on my device and I have to manually delete it. All cloud storage apps have a separate view and download option. Why is it so hard to make this work properly with owncloud

[enoch85]

As I agree with @jasperweiss I reopen this issue. Still, nothing has happened to solve this issue, or if so, please link the PR in this issue.

[LukeOwlclaw]

There is something happening. The the beta version provided by Tobias (branch beta). It does not load the whole file but a scaled version.

[enoch85]

@LukeOwncloud How do I get the Beta version so that I can try it?

[ghost]

@LukeOwncloud the problem isn't that I have little bandwith or storage space. It's just that the idea of cloud storage is to store things in the cloud. Now, everytime I view a file, it downloads it and opens it. After which I have to remove the local copy. I just want to tap a file, view the image/document/song/video without having it downloaded to my device first (at least not permanently, there's always going to be a need for a cache/temorary file)

[enoch85]

Just to take one example.

You could use the Gallery app on the server for viewing pictures, that works exactly as it should, it shows the picture, and you can choose to download it.

But imagine if it had the same behaviour as the android app, "to save bandwidth" or "always make the file available" it would download the picture to the computer every time. Now, wouldn't that be a pretty bad solution?

[ghost]

Exactly. I'd say go ahead and check out Onedrive, dropbox, Google drive. And see how they handle things.

Side note, I am planning to make my own app that uses the onedrive/google drive/dropbox api to access files so that you can use it the same way the official apps do, except it encrypts it first before sending it. This allows you to use any cloud service provider and have the owncloud like peace of mind that nobody can access your files except you. (Basically boxcryptor but open-source with a intuitive material interface)

[LukeOwlclaw]

@enoch85
The beta is here: https://github.com/owncloud/android/tree/beta/apks
Direct link to APK: https://github.com/owncloud/android/raw/beta/apks/latest.apk

@enoch85 @jasperweiss
I do not argue with you guys and I would not have the slightest problem with such a setting. But I think it is not necessary...

@tobiasKaminsky
...because the beta can do exactly what you want, I think. Can you shed some light on how the scaled photos are cached? Cache size? Set cache size? To 0?

@jasperweiss
That seems to me a mammoth task. Good luck!

[enoch85]

@LukeOwncloud

But I think it is not necessary...

Not for you maybe, and not for me neither really (I have 64 GB phone) but I'm thinking of all the other users with smaller memory. ownCloud is for everybody. Just sayin. :)

[ghost]

@luke @enoch85 again, for me too it's not so much about storage space. It's just rather annoying behavior for a cloud storage app to download every file you open.

[ghost]

Oh and @lukeOwncloud, it shouldn't be too hard since there are plenty of file managers that I can borrow code from and all the connection stuff is handled by the api.
I'm just trying to think of a way to have the encryption key on multple devices without manually transferring it. I guess it should be stored on the cloud service along with the files encrypted with a (strong) password but that wouldn't be ideal.

[enoch85]

@LukeOwncloud Wow, the Beta version is really nice. Afaik the file is not stored locally if you choose "do nothing", and the file is not downloaded when you browse the pictures on server. Is that a correct assumption?

@tobiasKaminsky Will this be in 1.8.1?

[LukeOwlclaw]

@jasperweiss

It's just rather annoying behavior for a cloud storage app to download every file you open.

The beta does not (at least in the context of images).

@enoch85
No, "do nothing" is an action for instant upload (observe the title of the section).

Whole photos a never downloaded unless you explicitly choose from the menu download. As I wrote before:

[The beta version] does not load the whole file but a scaled version.

What you want to do is go into the settings and set the cache size to 0MB. Then all scaled images are deleted right after they are loaded.

@tobiasKaminsky That is what actually happens (I just checked). However, wouldn't it be better to clean up the cache only when changing the folder? Otherwise thumbnails do not make any sense: They would be gone after scrolling down and up again.

[enoch85]

I rest my case.