Internet Explorer support timeline #15567
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cc @MTRichards |
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I think the focus should be on making oC work with IE11 first, before looking at anything else. "Pictures", which is the only app which ships with 8.0 doesn't work at all on IE per example. |
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@oparoz that's a different issue ;) |
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Well, there are 2 aspects. IE support was dropped with the release of 8.0. So, there should be an effort to make it work again and at the same time, workaround code for IE8/9 should be removed. |
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I think you mistook dropping Windows IIS support for removing IE support. IE is still supported afaik |
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Yes. We still officially support IE until 8… Well, "support"… it's not really that there are a lot of people actually testing it 🙈 |
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That's what I mean. People think it is still supported because nothing was said about dropping it, but in reality, oC contains components which don't run on it. Fixing this ticket should help: |
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@oparoz still different issue, thats a bug report for the pictures app |
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@Raydiation - Nope, it's not the only app/component using EventSource and OC.EventSource is part of core. There might also be other polyfills in core as well. |
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This thread has nothing to do with coding and more with issue management and all the loops that devs have to jump through to get CSS and JS code in: this is about making it possible to immediately close IE8 and 9 related rendering issues and being able to use newer CSS features like calc() when submitting PRs Bugs related to IE compatibility are an entirely different problem and therefore need to be handled like every other bug. In your case open a ticket for eventsource related to IE which will be accepted because officially IE 10/11 is supported, so file a bug. As for the JS API side: The JS api has no guarantee to be stable, only 1 function and the csrf token is officially documented, roll your own implementation that fixes this issue if you want to. |
You're right, first define the policy, then perform an assessment, then fix according to the policy. The current non-written policy regarding IE is that it's not supported, despite what it says on the tin. Bugs are not fixed consistently. Releases are not tested on IE. Most apps don't support it. From my pov, you should support IE11 only and perhaps IE10 if your support contracts tell you to.
In the current context, I'm not sure people see a point in reporting IE bugs, so yes, a new direction is needed, with some clear actions and not just words.
js.js is pretty well documented and without requireJS support, oC quickly becomes bloated when every app is adding its own libraries, but that's for another discussion. |
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Supporting IE8 is killing the user experience for 95+% of users |
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Some updated stats based on only the month May
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BTW just read that 11 is also available on 7 so we could actually drop 10 too ^^ |
Dream on, sorry folks. As long as there are users that pay money which decide to use IE 8 (and there are a hell of them because some companies don't feel the need to update their ancient software) we simply cannot drop support in core. At least not for the basic functionalities such as file access etc… :-( |
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The question is ofc how many there are and when xp support is going to be dropped. Since the company does not publish these numbers one could only guess |
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just fyi. XP and IE8 marketshare is tracked by a lot of organizations. Just google it. |
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@Raydiation we hate to support IE - it's no fun - nothing to argue about. But we need to continue to support it. It's simply a fact for the time being. We shall re-evaluate this on every major release. So for 8.1 we keep IE8 - for 8.2 we will decide as soon as we start the dev cycle. |
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Must be the same companies responsible for all the data breaches we keep hearing about... The problem is that a startup needs money and can't force early adopters to reduce their attack surface. |
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Starting January 2016 Microsoft will drop support for IE8 completely and only support IE9 (Vista) and IE11 (7, 8.1) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/microsoft-internet-explorer As 8.2 will be released in mid October and will not be in the production release channel before december with 8.2.2 (as a rough estimate). This is worth to think about. The reason for this is, that @PVince81 currently has problems with porting it's WebDAV files app to a working state in IE8: #16902 (comment) |
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Because this is mainly affecting the business side of ownCloud: @MTRichards please consider this with respect to the product road map - THX |
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If people want to use ownCloud as a secure solution, they should also make sure to use secure browsers, which IE8 is not. Just saying. |
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Wow. This is cool. Would be great to drop 8. The question is of course of people stop using IE8 too. We have the problem with XP too. It is out of support but people still use it. XP Marketshare: 12% IE8 Marketshare: 13.5% |
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@MTRichards What do you think? |
Weird: http://gs.statcounter.com/#all-browser_version-ww-monthly-201506-201506-bar http://gs.statcounter.com/#all-os-ww-monthly-201506-201506-bar |
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let's reelaborate on this within 9.0 scope - thx |
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As we are now in the scope of ownCloud 9.0: @karlitschek @MTRichards What is the state of this? ;) |
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checking... I always say that, and always check - but I am leaning to dropping it, but still don't have feedback on everyone. For now, lets plan to remove it but please confirm with me before we take action that is irreversible... |
Let's repeat the game :) What is the status? Did you collect all the feedback yet? |
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Jan 21 seems like a good time to up the minimum to IE 11. |
Just to get a proper statement on this one: Seems like a good time or will we do it? This would affect ownCloud 9.0 where we already are investing significant time (also on-going!) on IE 8 compatibility and if we would not have to support IE 8 this would make @PVince81 much happier and a lot of needed efforts gone. |
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I will be super clear then. We can discontinue IE 8 support with oc 9.0 launch. My discussions with customers and gcx have proven this is ok. So no need for ie 8 support in oC 9.0. IE 9 and 10 and 11 for 9.0. We will drop 9 and 10 for 9.1. Matt Richards
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Thank you, @MTRichards. Let's close this then 😄 |
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Great to hear this! |
I think the SVG fallback can be removed. |
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As suggested by @PVince81 we need to be carefull that the IE8 stuff is not also supporting IE9. Probabaly easiest to do the big cleanup for 9.1 when we can remove a lot more. |
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@jospoortvliet @carlaschroder FYI, see #15567 (comment) |
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Also FYI @owncloud/designers @oparoz :) As mentioned, let’s wait for the 9.1 cycle though to remove all the fallbacks. But we can stop right now to add any more workarounds to current master. :) |
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\o/ |
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In addition to https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/End-of-IE-support two more links: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/01/05/web-developers-rejoice-internet-explorer-8-9-and-10-die-on-tuesday/ MS will also ship a "The new "End of Life" upgrade notification for Internet Explorer" to make people aware of this. |
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mentioned this issue
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This thread has been automatically locked since there has not been any recent activity after it was closed. Please open a new issue for related bugs. |
At some point we need to think about deprecating older IE versions since the maintenance cost is too high.
I think its possible to drop IE8 soon. I'd also advocate to drop IE9 support with it.
8 is the classic company browser on XP, 10 is the newest possible version on 7 which is what most companies will likely migrate to. I think the issue is therefore more about what company Windows version we want to support and Vista is a very unpopular choice for that.
Some marketshare stats as of 13th of April:
@MorrisJobke @LukasReschke @PVince81 @DeepDiver1975 @nickvergessen @jancborchardt
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