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Proposal: Podcast and PodcastEpisode #373
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I'm not convinced by the Same for And for Beyond that, the proposal itself seems rational. The other approach would be to explicitly state that we think podcasts are the same as radio (which is how I think of them - I also listen to as much radio streamed over the net as I do AM or FM broadcasts of audio signals), and just say "use the radio properties". Thoughts? |
I agree with @chaals re: network and category. CreativeWork already has a "genre" property. You could use that. If you change your hierarchy a bit to Thing > CreativeWork > Series > Podcast, you could use the existing properties to link up the Episodes to the Series, so you would not need the "podcast" property. |
On 20 Mar 2015, at 11:59, chaals <notifications@github.commailto:notifications@github.com> wrote: I'm not convinced by the category property. Being able to link to a popular online store is handy, but baking a particular one into schema.orghttp://schema.org doesn't feel right - there are a lot of subject classification schemes, and apart from anything else I don't find Apple's terribly good, so I would suggest using about for now Agree - don’t see the special case here that is made just for Podcasts. Using about to reference a value in a classification scheme(s) seems to be OK for most other CreativeWorks (while letting people add the itunes category or their own equivalent, if they are using RDFa or JSON-LD to mix vocabs. Same for network - I am not sure what it does beyond publisher. Neither do I - its just the publishing organisation. And for guid I am just sceptical we need it. I note it isn't in the examples, and I am not sure what we would use as a best practice value. I suspect we can rely on existing identification instead. Yes surely the URI of the of the description is the globally unique ID. Beyond that, the proposal itself seems rational. The other approach would be to explicitly state that we think podcasts are the same as radio (which is how I think of them - I also listen to as much radio streamed over the net as I do AM or FM broadcasts of audio signals), and just say "use the radio properties". I have some sympathy with this approach - it feels a bit like needing an AudioSeries Type to be a super type for RadioSeries and a new PodcastSeries - then Episode would work for both. ~Richard Thoughts? — |
About About @chaals / @jvandriel / @Dataliberate About The only extra fields Series give to CreativeWork are TL:DR:
Thoughts? |
I think, as Richard suggested, that |
We should collect some data. If indeed podcasts are described using a certain categorization scheme, guha On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 8:43 AM, chaals notifications@github.com wrote:
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Personally, I don't care too much about what categories to use, I'm way more concern about simply have the Podcast/PodcastEpisode schemes. But, putting personal opinions aside, I made some research about the categories, I hope it helps the discussion: The podcast sites themselves usually don’t use categorization other than the internal categories of the site or blog, but podcast directories tend to follow the Apple convention, sometimes even down to the sub-categories, a quick googling got me these examples:
For reference, Apple's list is here (at the end of the page). I can say that Apple's categorization "it's a thing"! Apple was the first to try to put some other in the podcast chaos about 10 years ago; their patterns stuck and were copied by many other directories after that. |
Any progress on this? |
@dhilowitz, the maintainers of the project commented on my initial proposal, I am waiting on their opinion about the Apple's category list (see above), but they are deliberating on this for months... I think I could just try my luck with a pull request! |
Just as an FYI, all deliberations, if any, take place on this list. So, if guha On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Ronaldo Ferreira notifications@github.com
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@unor, I agree! ...just |
feed is too ambiguous. I prefer rssFeed, but may be biased. guha On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Ronaldo Ferreira notifications@github.com
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Agree that feed is way too ambiguous for schema. Why doesn't isPartOf cover this use case? |
From the definition: "isPartOf" - Indicates a CreativeWork that this CreativeWork is (in some sense) part of. I don't thing the feed itself is another "CreativeWork", it is just an already machine-readable alternative representation. |
I'm not sure isPartOf is right, but I don't think "feed" is either. Not just because the name is too generic for the concept we are using here as specific to podcasts - the concept is more general... Perhaps we shuld look at the stuff for serial publication including TV series etc. A feed is a creative work, in the same way an exhibition, blog (as distinct from blogpost) or an album is. Schema should not get all FRBR in describing the intricate relationships between different manifestations of works and collections (inter alia, because FRBR already does it ;) ). But we should handle basics in a rational way instead of having parallel silos, if we can. |
+1 for rssFeed to future proof against other types of feeds. Why do we need guid? It seems "@id" or itemid as appropriate in the markup? If Podcast is a subtype of http://schema.org/CreativeWorkSeries, we already have the link from Podcast to PodcastEpisode without introducing new properties. We could also reuse http://schema.org/publisher to avoid adding "network". |
Putting all the comments together, I think we got a simpler specification:
What do you all think? Podcast:
PodcastEpisode
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+1 |
1 similar comment
+1 |
What are the next steps here? Is this proposal still planned or abandoned? |
I didn't find a contributing guide, I don't know if just need to send a PR or do anything else before. |
Hi, I'm pretty interested in this. Is there some procedure to move this on? I'm happy to do some legwork if someone can point me in the right direction. |
It is probably just a matter of editing the |
Is there like, no one who runs this repo who can answer this question? |
In principle - submit a Pull Request, of vocab changes accompanied by examples, for consideration in an upcoming release. You may want to do this in files named issue-373.rdfa and issue-373-examples.txt instead of submitting edits to the main schema.rdfa and examples.txt. This also helps if the proposal is initially placed in the pending area. In practice - you may find the following "schema.org in practice" articles: part 1, 2, and 3, a help in how you can try/test things locally, and the HowWeWork document for general background. ~Richard |
@RichardWallis you just wrote a perfect draft for a |
I still think a Podcast should be a subclass of schema.org/CreativeWorkSeries so you can link individual episodes to the podcast as a whole. |
@vholland Did you mean something like |
I was thinking the type schema.org/Podcast would be a subclass of schema.org/CreativeWorkSeries. This keeps it consistent so This American Life is a series whether you are discussing the radio series or the modern podcast version. An individual "podcast" would be a PodcastEpisode as described above. As an example This American Life 625: Essay B is an episode. I am aware that some podcast series will have only a single episode. |
To avoid confusion would they not be better as PodcastSeries and PodcastEpisode? |
@RichardWallis Those names sound good to me |
Has there been any movement on this? |
+1 for including PodcastSeries and PodcastEpisode |
+1 |
What's the status on this? +1 |
I was talking to someone about podcasts and schema.org and was embarrassed to realize we have been discussing for 3 years. In an effort to move this along, I created PR #2007 |
While this is still an open issue, which is the best option for markup my podcast website? I'm thinking of using CreativeSeries. Does anyone have a better idea? |
+1 |
+1 Any progress with this? |
Implemented in Release 4.0 |
Should 'trailer' not be allowed to be an AudioObject or even a WebPage or Article or any other CreativeWork also? Especially when promoting an audio podcast, a video trailer seems overblown (and doesn't fit what I want to do right now)! |
From my use of webFeed, I think that it should be allowed in CreativeWorkSeries (for a series which gets a RSS/Atom feed, but isn't a podcast) and PodcastEpisode (to link to the podcast's feed) and indeed WebPage and Article and maybe all CreativeWork items to allow them to refer to a RSS/Atom feed associated with or that has that item as an entry/episode... |
Introduction
New schema types: Podcast and PodcastEpisode.
Podcasts are part of the common Internet slang for more than 10 years, they are everywhere, they are slowly becoming very popular, but they are not quite well represented by the Semantic Web.
So far, if anyone wanted to classify a podcast page, it suppose to use a generic “CreativeWork” type for the list of content and an “Episode” type for each instance. Expanding CreativeWork into “Podcast” type gives it the proper meaning, plus a few useful properties, and, specifying Episode into “PodcastEpisode” makes clear the difference between it and other episodes (RadioEpisode/TVEpisode).
Podcast
Definition:
A podcast, referring to a main theme containing a series of related sequential episodes.
Inheritance
Thing > CreativeWork > Podcast
Properties
network
category
rssFeed
Mapping from RSS "channel" sub-tags:
Just for reference:
<title>
<description>
<link>
<language>
<copyright>
<managingEditor>
<lastBuildDate>
<image>
<category>
<itunes:author>
<itunes:category>
<itunes:image>
<itunes:explicit>
<itunes:owner>
<itunes:subtitle>
<itunes:summary>
Notes
<channel>
sub-tags aren't mapped because they are implementation details:<webMaster>
<generator>
<docs>
<ttl>
<itunes:block>
<itunes:complete>
<itunes:new-feed-url>
PodcastEpisode
Definition:
A podcast episode, referring to a single instance of multimedia content (audio or video).
Inheritance
Thing > CreativeWork > Episode > PodcastEpisode
Properties
podcast
guid
category
Mapping from RSS "item" sub-tags:
Just for reference:
<title>
<description>
<link>
<guid>
<author>
<pubDate>
<comments>
<enclosure>
<category>
<itunes:author>
<itunes:image>
<itunes:duration>
<itunes:explicit>
<itunes:order>
<itunes:subtitle>
<itunes:summary>
Notes
<item>
sub-tags aren't mapped because they are implementation details:<itunes:block>
<itunes:isClosedCaptioned>
Example
Adapted from http://www.relay.fm/inquisitive/27.
Without Markup
Microdata
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