StreetComplete users delete oneway:bicycle=no when answering "Add whether there are cycleways"

[A67-A67]

I've seen this multiple times now and it seems to be a bug in StreetComplete with users that are unaware of what they are doing wrong. Example changeset.

These edits seem to be about cycle lanes, because the question is 'Add whether there are cycleways'. In this case the correct tag cycleway:both=no is added, but at the same time the bicycle exception for oneway traffic (oneway:bicycle=no) is removed erroneously. This is quite strange behaviour, as oneway restrictions have little to do with cycle lanes.

Note that many oneway streets in the Netherlands have an exception for cyclists and especially in the historical centres, there are no cycle lanes. So the combination cycleway:both=no and oneway:bicycle=no is very common.

[matkoniecz]

It is combination of high complexity of real world, interface not being ideally perfect and users not answering correctly.

Maybe some extra confirmation is needed here?

Maybe if oneway:bicycle=no is tagged already then prefill "cyclists may use road in both directions" for direction where according to existing tagging only cyclists may drive?

Or treat it completely like cycleway resurvey quest, and assume lone oneway:bicycle=no without any cycleway* tags to be equivalent to oneway:bicycle=no + cycleway:both=no? After all, if someone surveyed oneway:bicycle=no and have seen no need to tag cycleway* then assuming that it is a contraflow without lane seems to be a good idea.

I tested for https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/264306015#map=19/50.07046/19.96122&layers=C found by https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/10nq

[A67-A67]

I think it's important to understand that at least Dutch users will see oneway restrictions and cycle lanes as two completely separate things. So someone who's mapping cycle lanes, wouldn't be aware that he's also mapping oneway restrictions for cyclists.

So I wouldn't remove an existing tag like oneway:bicycle=no when there was no explicit action by a user to remove it.

PS. I'm not a StreetComplete user, so I don't know exactly what a StreetComplete user sees. I just noticed incorrect edits by StreetComplete users and had to restore this important tag for bicycle routing.

[westnordost]

This is how the interface currently looks like

1. initial display
   

2. selecting what kind of cycleway there is
   

3. final view before "OK"
   

The user did not see the "none, but cyclists may use road in both direction" selection, even though it is right next to the one he chose. So, this is not a bug in StreetComplete.

[westnordost]

If anything should be done on our side, it could be one of these two possibilities:

1. When the user selects "none", do not remove any previously set oneway:bicycle=no. However, this might go against the user's expectation that if he deliberately selects "none" and not the item right next to it, he expects that the tag is removed
2. consider oneway:bicycle=no alone (without accompanying cycleway:*=none) tagging as complete enough to initially pre-select the "none, but cyclists may use road in both direction" selection. (@matkoniecz suggestion)

[westnordost]

@matkoniecz suggestion would then look like this for a road that is just tagged with oneway:bicycle=no.

Alright, I think it is a reasonable assumption to infer that there is no cycleway when oneway:bicycle=no is set and nothing else in terms of cycleway.

[matkoniecz]

@matkoniecz suggestion would then look like this for a road that is just tagged with oneway:bicycle=no.

Maybe it would be a good idea to preset also other side with "no cycleway infrastructure"? Right now it asks "Is this still the cycleway situation here?" and there is no obvious way to select "yes, it is this way".

I know that I can tap on the other road side and select "nothing here" but someone new to SC will be confused.

[westnordost]

They might be confused, but they will not tag anything wrong. That the text "Is this still the cycleway situation here?" is shown is a different problem that cannot be solved here. It happens always when some previous tagging was discovered but nothing that was understood by StreetComplete.

[smichel17]

The user did not see the "none, but cyclists may use road in both direction" selection, even though it is right next to the one he chose. So, this is not a bug in StreetComplete.

Was this text changed recently? Or maybe it is a localization problem? This is what I remember seeing:

"Lane explicitly shared with other traffic" was also my understanding of that symbol. I didn't realize it ever has an effect on traffic in the other direction.

---

Separately, Google Street View captured the example @matkoniecz posted in August 2017, and if it still looks like that, the symbol is very faded:

https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Ermal/@50.0708578,19.9625283,3a,75y,134.62h,69.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stzjc-4IT_H-vQ9lOSrdMWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m15!1m7!3m6!1s0x47165b2025d0bee9:0x5b83a4a06a7728ba!2sGenera%C5%82a+J%C3%B3zefa+Bema,+31-518+Krak%C3%B3w,+Poland!3b1!8m2!3d50.0714387!4d19.9623464!3m6!1s0x47165b8550355beb:0x3f8ecf30568a4c9a!8m2!3d50.0706321!4d19.9625962!14m1!1BCgIgARICCAI?hl=en

So it is possible that the person who tagged it simply did not notice the symbol.

[westnordost]

"Lane explicitly shared with other traffic"

This is shown on non-oneways.

[matkoniecz]

@matkoniecz suggestion would then look like this for a road that is just tagged with oneway:bicycle=no.

Is it intentional that it is not enabled for oneway:bicycle=no cycleway=opposite?

So it is possible that the person who tagged it simply did not notice the symbol.

At least in Poland primary signage is a "bicycles are exempt" sign below sign of oneway roads (both under "this is an oneway road" and "no entrance from this side" signs)

[DerDings]

Today I stumbled upon this issue, too. Since the "no cycleway" icon has a big red X now, people (like I did) don't think there will be another "no cycleway [but...]" answer somewhere among the other options, without that big X. I think there are two main issues with this:

• The "no cycleway" option was moved to the top because of a very similar issue, but the "none, but cyclists may use road in both directions" didn't follow along, although it is some kind of no, too.
• Users can't completely read what is currently tagged, even if the way is shown nearly horizontally . What's invisible here (german locale) is exactly the word "keinen" ("none"), which would have made the user (me) understand this is correctly.
  Originally, it probably was intended that users read this text in the selection dialog and only see it appear in the graphic for confirmation. But when doing a resurvey, this graphic is the only place where you can see what is currently tagged. When opening the "select" dialog, which is designed to show descriptions fully readable, information about current state is not visible anymore.

I got two ideas how to make this less confusing:

• put the "none, but cyclists may use road in both directions" answer next to the "none" option
• on a resurvey, highlight what is currently tagged in the selection dialog.
  Also make sure it is not initially hidden when opening the dialog. This can be achieved
  • by automatically scrolling down to the currently tagged item
  • by showing it as the first item in the list. If so, it should be full-width to not make all the following options swap places.

The second option would make the whole resurvey stuff more clear in my opinion.

[westnordost]

Well, the first suggestion is easily doable, so I just implemented that. The second is not that easy.