[Seriously, it's ready]Virology Rework: The Thresholdening #28556
Conversation
tgstation-server
added
Feature
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6 symptoms 3 viruses again or 6 symptoms one virus because the latter is REALLY weak. |
I SERIOUSLY HOPE THIS ISN'T APPROVED MYSELF |
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@kevinz000 Overall symptoms are stronger, i think, and i really want to err on the side of underpowered rather than virology killing everyone |
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damnit rip my healing virus cheese electric boogaloo :'( |
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doctor i know you hate fun but just work with me here |
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Can you tune it down to normal non-antag zombies instead of a TC item? Looks like powercreep to me. |
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Zombies miiiight be sketchy but personally I like it Other two things you want approval on I think should definitely go through they're hilarious |
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lzimann was very against zombies, i dunno if maintainer or headmin ranks higher here |
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He's not the only maintainer you know |
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> Neutering lets you get the stat boosts from bad symptoms while not having the symptom itself No. Just no. This is just a flat out buff to heal viruses at this point. |
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Two less max symptoms, you ain't reaching thresholds if you put in all 4 healing symptoms. |
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Did you change it so that Transmission doesn't subtract one for each symptom? If not the only ones of these that you can actually get are on vomiting and coughing. Resistance: Hyphema 13 is unreachable. Stealth: All of these work, however the nature of stealth means they will likely be even more frustrating than normal. You can't see what's in it, you can see what the cure is, and you can't even use all the symptoms to math it out. Stealth spreading is the new death plagues. Speed: Spontaneous 10 is unreachable. All the healing at 15 is unreachable. So many of these you'll have to blank out symptoms every time, that or they'll be on no matter what. For example on stage speed to max it you'll want Accel, Youth, Fever, Itching, (Shivering or Headache) The activation is a great change, but either the activation numbers, the formulas, or viral numbers, need some tweaking. |
Cyberboss
added
Merge Conflict
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Thanks, i was sure i botched some numbers. As for the last point, it's the reason i added neutering; you'd have to add neutered fever etc to the healing symptom. |
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I struggle at reading code. Is the neutering targeted or more RNG hell? If you can neuter symptoms what's the point of having the Viral Accel/Viral Self-Adaptation/Eternal Youth since these are all just effectless things used for their stats already and a mandatory add for the stat you want (speed/stealth/resist) {sneezing for transmission but it has an activated}. Would you have any issue with the symptoms on virus's being revisited in a later PR to spread out the stat buffs from tier one? Also this is a good system for balancing, as negative thresholds could be used to keep things in check as well. |
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Sounds great, I especially like the consistency in virus activation going up over time instead of being rng and the pandemic seeing all viruses. |
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It does show neutered symptoms, but thresholds are still undocumented. I plan on adding being able to click on a symptom on the pandemic to see its details. |
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There's some bad math going on in that post. You can't get 12 speed with three healing symptoms. Accel +5
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hey xdtm go reopen 21029 :^) |
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@Nabski89 if it was it'd be +6 for stagespeed because you could just reroll but >>>people hate fun |
XDTM
changed the title
Cyberboss
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Shh we know |
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| // Sensory Destruction | |||
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| /datum/disease/advance/sensory_destruction/New(var/process = 1, var/datum/disease/advance/D, var/copy = 0) | |||
| /datum/disease/advance/narcolepsy/New(var/process = 1, var/datum/disease/advance/D, var/copy = 0) | |||
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fuck |
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never using command line again |
XDTM
changed the title
🆑 XDTM
experiment: Viruses and symptoms have been havily reworked.
add: Symptoms now have statistic thresholds, that give them new properties or improve their existing ones if the overall virus statistic is above the threshold. Check the pull request in github or the wiki (soon) for the full list.
del: Some symptoms no longer scale linearly with stats, and instead have thresholds.
tweak: The symptom limit is now 6.
del: Viruses can no longer be made invisible to the Pandemic
tweak: Symptoms no longer trigger with a 5% chance every second, but instead have a minimum and maximum number of seconds between each activation, making them more consistent.
del: The symptoms Blood Vomit and Projectile Vomit have been removed, and are now bonuses for the base Vomit symptom.
del: The Weakness symptom has been removed as it was completely useless.
tweak: The Sensory Destruction symptom has been reworked into Narcolepsy, which causes drowsiness and sleep.
tweak: Viral Aggressive Metabolism now has a timer before it starts decaying the virus. It scales with the highest between Resistance or Stage Speed.
add: You can now neuter symptoms, making them inactive. They will still affect stats. Adding formaldehyde to a virus will neuter a random symptom. A bottle of formaldehyde starts in the virus fridge.
/🆑
Full list of threshold bonuses:
Facial Hypertrichosis - None
Choking
Stage Speed 8 : Acts more often
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Acute respiratory distress syndrome
Stage Speed 8: Adds paralyzing chems (removed from base version)
Infect 8: Stronger damage
Confusion
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Resistance 6: Also deals some brain damage, not above 80
Infect 6: Stronger confusion
Cough
If AIRBORNE: Coughing causes a spread at range 1
Resistance 3: Coughing drops small items (removed from base)
Resistance 10: Can cause coughing fits that stun briefly
Speed 6: Increases cough frequency
Deafness
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Resist 9: Deafness is permanent instead of temporary
Dizziness
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Infect 6: Also adds the druggy effect
Fever
Resist 5: Heats more, can go above the damage threshold
Resist 10: Heats even more per activation
Shiver
Speed 5: Cools more, can go below the damage threshold
Speed 10: Cools even more
Spontaneous Combustion
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Speed 5: Increases fire stacks and damage
Speed 10: Increases fire_stacks and damage even more
Infect 8: Spreads the virus when igniting
Alkali Perspiration
Resist 9: Increases time between ignitions but increases power as well
Speed 8: Doubles the explosion range when wet
Infect 8: Also adds napalm and clf3 (removed from base version)
Necrotizing Fasciitis
Resist 7: Causes extra bleeding
Infect 8: Deals additional stamina damage
Autophagocytosis Necrosis
Stealth 5: Suppresses early warnings
Speed 7: Adds Heparin and Lipolicide (removed from base version)
[PROPOSED REQUESTING APPROVAL] Infect 13: Adds romerol, turning the victim into a zombie on death.
DNA Saboteur
Stealth 5: DNA won't reset after curing
Speed 10: Increases mutation frequency
Resist 8: Mutate twice instead of once
Hallucigen
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings, and gives off the messages of positive symptoms instead
Speed 7: Stronger hallucinations
Headache
Stealth 4: Reduces early message frequency
Speed 6: Deals some stamina damage when headaching
Speed 9: Reduces frequency, headaches are strong enough to stun
Healing Symptoms
Stealth 4: Hides the overlay when healing
Speed 7: Increases healing rate
Speed 15: Further increases healing rate
Itching
Infect 6: Increases frequency
Speed 7: Itching causes scratching, dealing minor brute damage (0.5)
Narcolepsy
Infect 7: Deals stamina damage when it triggers
Resistance 10: Triggers more often
Self-Respiration
Resist 8: Regenerates blood
Sensory Restoration
Resist 6: Also heals brain damage (removed from base)
Infect 8: Also purges alcohol (removed from base)
Sneezing
Infect 9: Increases spread range
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Hyphema
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
[REQUESTING APPROVAL] Resist 13: Eyes fall off instead of just being blinded
Voice Change
Stealth 3: Suppresses early warnings
Speed 7: Changes voice fater
[REQUESTING APPROVAL] Infect 14: Changes the infectee's language along with the voice
Vomit
Stealth 4: Suppresses early warnings
Resist 7: Blood Vomit
Infect 7: Projectile Vomit
Unlisted symptoms do not have threshold bonuses!
All balance is not final, i'll tweak the numbers as necessary.
Why
Threshold bonuses: The reasoning behind these is that they feel more rewarding and impactful than simple number scaling, and gives the option to dedicate symptom space to more symptoms or to upgrade a few central ones instead.
Symptom activation change: the intention behind this is RNG consistency and ease of balance. Currently all symptoms have a 5% chance of activate with few exceptions, making it complicated to tweak.
Neutering: Upgrading positive symptoms by putting a ton of negative ones doesn't work well, in my opinion, especially when they'll trigger their own thresholds making the virus somewhat dangerous instead. Neutering allows players to sidestep that, but i recognize that it swings a bit too far on the other side of the risk/reward balance. I plan on finding a better system to manage virus statistics in the future.
ghost
mentioned this pull request
🆑 XDTM
experiment: Viruses and symptoms have been havily reworked.
add: Symptoms now have statistic thresholds, that give them new properties or improve their existing ones if the overall virus statistic is above the threshold. Check the pull request in github or the wiki (soon) for the full list.
del: Some symptoms no longer scale linearly with stats, and instead have thresholds.
tweak: The symptom limit is now 6.
del: Viruses can no longer be made invisible to the Pandemic
tweak: Symptoms no longer trigger with a 5% chance every second, but instead have a minimum and maximum number of seconds between each activation, making them more consistent.
del: The symptoms Blood Vomit and Projectile Vomit have been removed, and are now bonuses for the base Vomit symptom.
del: The Weakness symptom has been removed as it was completely useless.
tweak: The Sensory Destruction symptom has been reworked into Narcolepsy, which causes drowsiness and sleep.
tweak: Viral Aggressive Metabolism now has a timer before it starts decaying the virus. It scales with the highest between Resistance or Stage Speed.
add: You can now neuter symptoms, making them inactive. They will still affect stats. Adding formaldehyde to a virus will neuter a random symptom. A bottle of formaldehyde starts in the virus fridge.
/:cl:
Full list of threshold bonuses:
Unlisted symptoms do not have threshold bonuses!
All balance is not final, i'll tweak the numbers as necessary.
Why
Threshold bonuses: The reasoning behind these is that they feel more rewarding and impactful than simple number scaling, and gives the option to dedicate symptom space to more symptoms or to upgrade a few central ones instead.
Symptom activation change: the intention behind this is RNG consistency and ease of balance. Currently all symptoms have a 5% chance of activate with few exceptions, making it complicated to tweak.
Neutering: Upgrading positive symptoms by putting a ton of negative ones doesn't work well, in my opinion, especially when they'll trigger their own thresholds making the virus somewhat dangerous instead. Neutering allows players to sidestep that, but i recognize that it swings a bit too far on the other side of the risk/reward balance. I plan on finding a better system to manage virus statistics in the future.