Boxstation Mapping Changes

[Steelpoint]

This PR is intended as larger series of minor, and maybe major, changes to Boxstation. In the hope of improving it and warming up reception to this somewhat neglected map.

(This PR is a WIP)

I HIGHLY welcome any feedback and suggestions for future changes or tweaks to the map in any capacity, one thing I've been told is that Box maint could be enlarged but I'm still thinking about how I'd approach that, if at all.

Below I'll list every single change I've effected, for transparency sake as well since its not unheard of minor things to be swinged through. Pictures will be included at the end of the more bigger changes.

I've currently gone through Security and some civilian areas. I'm now working my way around Engineering, Medical and Science. Maintenance is also on my agenda.

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• Hydro dirt mounds in the Perma Brig have been replaced with proper hydro trays.

• Surgical tools in the 'prisoner transfer centre' are now inside a surgical dufflebag.

• Sergeant-at-Armsky has been posted to the armoury.

• External armoury now has a security camera placed there.

• HoS Office has been electrified and now has privacy shutters

• The oft unused 'cell 4' is now a communal holding cell (pic below)

• EVA has been reworked to be far more accessible in a emergency and now has additional space suits, eight up from four. Other misc supply count is akin to how it was prior.

• Botany now has two public facing vendors for public use, a MegaSeed and NutriMax vendor.

• Science now has a public autolathe via the 'RnD' window.

• New fire safety closets and a few extra emergency lockers have been sprinkled around the main halls.

• Bar backroom now has a new Hooch Master Deluxe for mixing.

• Security entrance now has a window in between the doors.

• ORM is now public facing

• Two hand labblers were placed in science.

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EVA

Botany

Public Autolathe

Security Entrance and Common Cell

ORM

🆑 Steelpoint
add: NTSS Boxstation has undergone several large and minor scale retrofits and refits by the Nanotrasen Corps of Engineers.
tweak: Changes of note include a reworked EVA Storage, improved permanent confinement living area and a public autolathe. A full list of changes can be found on your local NT Git page.
/:cl:

[yoyobatty]

Reminds me of the edits we did on hippiestation to our hippiestation.dmm map, based on boxstation. I looked at meta for inspiration

[anconfuzedrock]

Yeah sure turn boxstatin into meta why don’t we, those life prisoners need light up hydro trays cuz they’re often too busy to check, Something something steelpoint buffing sec, conflicts based around lack of spacesuits are stupid and cargo should never consider buying more, it isn’t like metastation storage was built for highpop anyways.
Hundreds of assistant lives were ruined by having to ask a botanist for seeds, but fortunately their lives will be saved when we turn box into metastation and decide that, yes, autollathes were balanced around being public. Chemists always should have access to 50 large beakers,. Any assistant can own a 15 brute saw and multitool with a whole surgical set, spraycantide should require no effort, cargo must be one dimensional. 357 speedloaders cost traitors several telecrystals because they’re super hard to print out of a public autolathe. Yes, maps should have no gameplay differences, only different locations of departments. Heaven forbid we make one thing harder to do on a certain map! The only job allowed to have struggles is shaft miner. Praise metastation, ruler of all, promoting creative antag bases by having them pre-built so there’s no need to make one or control a department. I’ve seen so many uniquely designed maint bars on metastation, due to its maint bar being so utterly skeletal that it doesn’t even have arcade machines and posters pre built with quality flooring. Metastation is clearly the best map that all must COMPLETELY copy. I know this because it has more furniture and wood floors and because I find lots of free stuff in maint as assistant.

[Steelpoint]

Being sarcastic and acting retarded is not going to get you far. If you disagree on certain changes, please describe them constructively.

[81Denton]

tl;dr
at least format your feedback so it's readable

[ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone]

a third of these are sec buffs

hehehehehehe

I will say I agree with unloved in the fact that I don't want this to be a meta clone. I liked the look of older EVA and absolutely despise the resource supplying such as extra vendors (more stranges!) and a free autolathe.

[MMMiracles]

public autolathes make me irrationally angry

[Steelpoint]

At the very least the vendors are not free for the crew to print off. I also thought it'd be another minor money sink for the one person who wants to grow fruit and did not spawn as a Botanist.

The public autolathe idea was more due to every other station using one, hence why I thought it'd be an acceptable change and was one suggested to me. If public autolathes really are a issue that allow too much good gear to get into peoples hands, I'd suggest tackling the idea by making public variants of autolathes more restricted in items they can make or adding some expensive monetary cost to vending items.

The EVA change was inspired by me wishing that EVA was more accessible during an emergency, the extra EVA suits were more so to bring the storage closer in line with the other stations. But if scarcity of suits is desired I can reduce the number.

The security changes are more due to the fact I personally notice those things more so, and I can hardly call most of em real buffs aside finally giving box armsky. The other changes are either really minor changes, or things that really should be there in the first place (such as the Armoury exterior lacking any cameras anymore or that the HoS office is not electrified at all despite most of the other heads office being electrified or well fortified)

[ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone]

adding security cameras to armory and adding defense mechanisms to hos office are straight buffs however warranted they may be.

[Steelpoint]

Its more a correction considering not only does every other station variant have those, but that we USED to have those on Box in the past but they were, for reasons beyond me, removed.

[yoyobatty]

That snowballed quickly, I like the changes though, might carry them over to hippie :)

[anconfuzedrock]

Alright steel, I’ll say the exact same things twice.
-prisoners don’t need hydro trays, they have little else to do but watch plants and don’t deserve more luxury than the public garden. Plus prisoners will just smash the machines.
-eva has 8 suits on meta because it was designed for highpop. Box’s comparatively low suit count can lead to interesting conflict and gives cargo reason to buy eva crates or mining to buy hardsuits(it also used to have 6, 2 being for command, but they were removed because it was argued that it wasn’t necessary since all heads but the hop had suits now and, at the time, the hop could get a suit from mining.)
-I see no reason why assistants need instant access to all of the seeds botany has. They can just ask a botanist, or do what assistants do if there are none (or just “ai open” or ask hop or one of many legal ways)
-autolathes were balanced around being private, but people love the convenience without regarding the flaws. Not every map needs to be the exact same. With private autolathes, cargo had more work. I felt some value to my large beakers as chemist, though I could get more if I needed to. Free 15 brute weapons weren’t meant to be handed out to assistants, and spray cans are incredibly easy to tide with. Spray paint brig windows, ruin the halls faster than a janiborg can mop, and dear god the stuns. As much as I use them, I shouldn’t have gotten away with murder by spray painting a sec officer in the face. Other ghetto assistant weaponry pale in comparison (ied spear maybe, but lances were never intended as throwing weapons and here we are now with the op trash.) .357 loaders cost several tc because they weren’t something any job could buy by the barrel. At this point on meta detectives have no reason not to immediately mod their gun. If anything, meta should be the outlier,, Not box, but it can be an outlier because
-not every map needs to be exactly the same, just with different department locations. Nobody whines when things are easier on one map, but they do if things are harder. The only job with risk of death, even, is shaft miner. Causing people to have to put in effort to get their rewards can’t be a bad thing. Vacant commisaries somewhat stump creativity in that it means anyone making a shop is almost certain to build there, and doing otherwise would be a waste, though creative. Same applies to most rooms on non box maps- the maint bar on meta is fully decorated, well, in general meta is, so you have less room for your own decor. I get the feeling people mostly like meta because at face value it looks pretty and it has a lot of free stuff.(which it specifically only has because it was made as the first highpop map) That doesn’t mean every map needs to have all the cool stuff meta does.

Edit: on the hydro vendors,. Almost all jobs make enough money to ignore the costs. For assistants, they just need to find- or make- a corpse or braindead, and loot the id. When they could just ask a botanist. Money currently isn’t a good way to balance anything.
Cargo can regulate autolathe use itself. It just takes one tech to tell an assistant he can’t have a speedloader but he can have a bucket. If there are no techs, the station has bigger problems and the autolathe user can likely be forgiven for getting in some other way.

Triple edit: the eva changes make breaking into eva even easier, since nobody would see you through a window if you hacked in from maint.

[ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone]

At the very least the vendors are not free for the crew to print off. I also thought it'd be another minor money sink for the one person who wants to grow fruit and did not spawn as a Botanist.

True but also it means double FREE seeds, double FREE nutrients, and most importantly double stranges for botanists.

The public autolathe idea was more due to every other station using one, hence why I thought it'd be an acceptable change and was one suggested to me. If public autolathes really are a issue that allow too much good gear to get into peoples hands, I'd suggest tackling the idea by making public variants of autolathes more restricted in items they can make or adding some expensive monetary cost to vending items.

It is restricted by being in Cargo only, which you have just removed. Other maps are dumb for this I absolutely can't stand it.

The EVA change was inspired by me wishing that EVA was more accessible during an emergency, the extra EVA suits were more so to bring the storage closer in line with the other stations. But if scarcity of suits is desired I can reduce the number.

okay, I just dislike the look of it. I don't have much consideration of the number of suits.

Its more a correction considering not only does every other station variant have those, but that we USED to have those on Box in the past but they were, for reasons beyond me, removed.

so it's a buff for consistency lol

[Steelpoint]

The above feedback is something I can understand, I'll wait longer for more feedback however before I make any changes.

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-eva has 8 suits on meta because it was designed for highpop. Box’s comparatively low suit count can lead to interesting conflict and gives cargo reason to buy eva crates or mining to buy hardsuits

I've yet to see any 'interesting conflict' arise from this, at most its just a case of losing out on a EVA suit. I've also never seen cargo order anything that isn't a SWAT suit for space proof protection but that's beside the point and a economy issue.

-I see no reason why assistants need instant access to all of the seeds botany has. They can just ask a botanist, or do what assistants do if there are none (or just “ai open” or ask hop or one of many legal ways)

Assistants still need to spend their money on the seeds and items, money they have in very limited supply mind you.

-autolathes -snip-

Traitors have been breaking into cargo and looting dozens of revolver/stechkin ammo for years, public or private. At least with the more public autolathes you are likely to be seen printing the ammo, although in the current meta no one really gives a shit. The other issues I can see as being valid, but I feel a better solution would be forcing people to spend money to print items so at least there is more reason to save money.

-not every map needs to be exactly the same, just with different department locations. Nobody whines when things are easier on one map, but they do if things are harder. -snip-

I disagree that my changes are morphing this map into a meta clone, I just have a very symmetrical design scheme and that tends to mimic meta to a degree. Imo I feel one of the bigger draws to meta is the very large and secretive maintenance it has which also helps antag play in some regard.

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True but also it means double FREE seeds, double FREE nutrients, and most importantly double stranges for botanists.

I could remove some of the more pressing items from the vendor (stranges) and slightly decrease overall numbers of seeds.

[Steelpoint]

I've pushed some changes.

• New fire safety closets and a few extra emergency lockers have been sprinkled around the main halls.
• Bar backroom now has a new Hooch Master Deluxe for mixing.

[anconfuzedrock]

If you don’t see it, I don’t have much else to say, really. People will give at least something more of a shit about ammo when people break into cargo for it. You don’t see much conflict over suits because yes swat suits are too cheap, and because every map but box has too many suits for it to matter.
It takes minimal effort for an assistant to steal cash (or they could play engineer) for any other job, they now have basically free access to half the benefits of botany.
Until autolathe prices are actually added, DON’T BALANCE MAPS AROUND THEM!
I don’t know what the hell a symmetrical design scheme is supposed to mean in this context, but meta’s maint helps antag play in the same way that a baby walker helps a baby walk. Limits creativity (why make a place to hide the bodies or convince people to stay outta your stash in the library quiet room when you can weld into one of your many flavors of majnt loot room?) And doesn’t teach you a thing. At the least, meta’s maint is large because it was designed for a particularly large amount of people.

Edit: just made things worse. with extra machines in the maint bar, it now has everythin the regular bar can offer with the same ease. Why even play bartender then if the assistants don’t have to work to get an equally consistent supply of booze? On the other hand, box didn’t need more lockers either. Visiting one of the specific maint lockers for fire safety equipment was just one more reason for a good boy to be in maint, and gave the access value for people who don’t want to validhunt or look for figurative and literal strange objects. We don’t need to fund salbutamol swallowers either, when’s the last tiek you thought “ughh, fucking box, I’ll have to enter another hallway or look in maint if I want more emergency o2, the tank and mask and epi pen in my box didn’t last forever and I didn’t have the foresight to check my tank levels at any point.”

[Steelpoint]

If an assistant wants to grown plants and food I don't want to discourage em, since most assistant players hardly do anything of worth or contribution to begin with.

I might end up tossing the autolathe but I'll wait for more feedback before I go removing things from this PR.

The maint issue is a fair point, but antags like cult are very reliant on a larger maint to help keep their activities hidden for longer. There are very few locations on the map, maint wise, that can offer some degree of stealth.

[anconfuzedrock]

Ye steel, so they can make em. If cults couldn’t just plop down in maint bar, they’d do thingsxlike kidnap the virologist and settle there, convert a whole small department so they can hide out in there, use the emgineer to build a new room, etc. I’d go into detail but this is kind of irrelevant and mostly just me shitting on maint. Don’t think cultists are reliant on booze though!
If those emergency closets in public hallways didn’t have fire closets in them, then that might be a good spot to put them, if anywhere.

[ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone]

If an assistant wants to plant then they can go botanist instead of rolling for antag maint access from the getgo :)

[epochayur]

8 suits seems like overkill

[81Denton]

To the people complaining about maint and ""free"" items: Whenever I ask people why they like Delta and Meta so much, 90% they say it's A) their expansive maint that allows for lots of creativity, whether if it's for renovating/construction or being an antag. B) is that jobs have plenty of resources, since ordering basic neccessities from cargo is fun for exactly no-one.

I'd advise anyone to actually ask players for their opinions and start mapping themselves instead of just bikeshedding in the comments section.

[kriskog]

I think the changes are good. Having restricted autolathes would work better on higher rp servers, as currently you need to be pretty lucky to even get in contact with cargo personell because they never man the front desk for obvious reason.
As for seeds, strange seeds cost money now and botanists can't afford more than two each. I don't think that it's unreasonable to add a couple more, as even with four you are unlikely to find something useful.

One thing I would like to see, is a three wide security airlock, like on delta/meta with a window inbetween. Not sure you can fit it here though, but I would appreciate it if you took a look.

[anconfuzedrock]

To the people complaining about maint and ""free"" items: Whenever I ask people why they like Delta and Meta so much, 90% they say it's A) their expansive maint that allows for lots of creativity, whether if it's for renovating/construction or being an antag. B) is that jobs have plenty of resources, since ordering basic neccessities from cargo is fun for exactly no-one.

Ok denton. that's why people like meta. That's why they like META. if they want those things, they can play METASTATION. It is a completely different station. I like the pyro in tf2, and I like the heavy's sandvich, but giving the pyro the sandvich would not be a good idea. Even if it was a good idea, then I would just have heavy and burn-heavy. no pyro. what if i just want pyro? heavy players who want burn heavy can just get the huo-long heater. There are other classes with healing-others capabilities that they can play too, but there is only one flame-focused airblast class.
Or I could just argue that the expansive maint and free stuff just actually lower variety and creativity, only seeming nice at face value. but I've already done that. If cargo doesn't need to order stuff, what does it do?

I was going to make my own map until people talked me out of it. I still am planning on doing so eventually.

[Dorsisdwarf]

I don't like how the EVA main room is now behind blast doors and rwalls instead of windows.

That little nubbin of window outside botany is now pointless and ugly, remove it.

Thats all the opinion I really have here.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

move orm

[epochayur]

box is de_dust2, meta is cs_office

[ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone]

box is Mona Lisa and meta is 21st century memes

[subject217]

similarly dust2 is a dull overused map and office is a classic for the ages

[anconfuzedrock]

Subject box runs like once a fucking week, meta is 2fort, box is viaduct. It’s not hard to see why people like meta with its mindless fun but if you want something balanced and functional you should look at viaduct

[optimumtact]

The other maps are literally hugboxed to shit to make people like them more, we lost our last actually talented mapper who cared more about the game experience than just handing people stuff on a plate when ikky up and took off.

[Steelpoint]

It'd be easier to discuss a mapping standard on what we could expect from maps and what is, and is not, on offer to people.

[Cyberboss]

Forcing mapdiffbot

[Cyberboss]

Conflicts

[Steelpoint]

oranges seems against the PR

[coiax]

Break your changes into smaller pieces, definitely should be able to get some of them in.

[Steelpoint]

I'll do that