Proper Filament Synchronization with P3P Smart Load #163
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On 28 May 2023, at 03:22, dondec123 ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi, this Q is about getting Palette3 Pro properly synchronized at print start.
I have a Formbot Troodon 2.0 printer, a Voron-like coreXY printer on Reprapfirmware. Key points:
• Direct Drive, ESteps/mm calibrated,
• USB Connected Mode works with P3P
• P2PP file transfer to Palette works over WiFi,
• Printer prints P2PP’s file but but out of Color sync.
Background: The P3’s provided Velcro coupler won’t work on this extruder (since it blocks the feed latches). But, that isn’t a problem, because the Palette’s feed tube fits precisely into the Troodon’s extruder. You can insert it about ½” in the feed hole, then it’s held firmly in place. (see Pix here MS OneDrive: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Arf1YeMUEh5Gm7oIdN4oq82kfunQew?e=8TSwAL )
The problem is getting Palette3 to synchronize with its SMART LOAD feature (which as I understand it, is the only Palette 3 option to load filament at start).
DETAILS:
• The P2PP manual shows getting the filament to just meet the extruder gears, no problem. But when Palette generates that filament and requests you to load it, the feed tube is above the Direct Drive Extruder feed hole by about 3” (see pix). This is the start of the Issue.
• Next, Palette3 wants you to Attach the Tube, so it can see filament being PULLED during Smart Load in the next step. But since the tube is still 3” above the extruder, Smart Load doesn’t SEE filament being pulled. (I use the long 110mm feed tube, which just bends during that initial Smart Load extrusion).
• P3P then gives an error saying it doesn’t see filament being pulled through, which is actually correct, though in fact the extruder did extrude a small amount of filament, and the feed tube has drawn nearer to the Extruder by that same amount.
• Repeated clicks on Ok, and Smart Load again and again finally gets the Feed Tube to meet the Extruder and inserted, after which the Palette now SEES the filament being pulled through - Smart Load completes.
But these repeated Smart Load attempts, which does small extrusion that the Palette “doesn’t see”, creates an “out of Sync” situation: ~3” of filament have already been extruded to get the feed tube to meet the Extruder. This is what I’m trying to resolve. How do I properly synchronize filament loading with Smart Load, given this situation.
I presume my issue has something to do with either the Load Offset or Splice Offset. I believe that if the Palette generated just enough filament to “meet the extruder gears” plus some small addition I can extrude manually to get the feed tube into the extruder, Smart Load would complete without errors and be in sync with the rest of the print job. But this is just a guess. My P2PP setup is below.
Measurements for reference:
• Feed tube length: 110mm
• Top of extruder to tip: 120mm
• Top of extruder to feed gears: 36mm
• Feed gears to nozzle: 120-36 = 84mm
For this just follow exactly the same steps as for use with Canvas (as described on the Mosaic website). There is no specific processing done by either canvas or P2PP related to the actual loading of filament. All is handled by the P3 internally. Normally enough filament should come out of the tube to feed the gears and then let the smart also take over. You can always manually extrude until there is no more slack on the filament and the tube is fully inserted into the extruder
Naïve Questions:
Q: is P2PP’s SPLICEOFFSET creating the extra inches of filament coming out the feed tube (at start of print)?
SPLICEOFFSET is the amount of filament added to the first splice. this takes the color change into the purge segment so there is some tolerance when over consuming filament.
Please note that the extra filament also needs to be purges EVERY time so effectively you will add this length to each splice when before purging starts, so purging length needs to be extended
Q: When I have a long strand of filament hanging from the tube at start (as shown), should I just Manually extrude that part until the feed tube meets and couples with the Extruder (then proceed with SMART LOAD)? Again, I need to be in sync with Palette’s idea of how much filament has been extruded.
Yes, you should have no free filament when the smart loading starts. the tube should be seated into the extruder. Possibly you have to manually jog the filament in until all is properly seated
… I think you probably understand my issue. Advice on how to proceed? Thank you!
===== My P2PP Configuration =====
;P2PP PALETTE3_PRO
; TOWER MANAGEMENT - if the purge tower is lower than the print height, when
; the toolhead descends to the tower it can BUMP the print. To disable small
; towers set delta to 0, otherwise the number is mm it can be smaller
; than the print (use 999 for any variation in size allowed, good for prints
; having long stretches without color change).
; PURGETOPSPEED
; If using PS's enerated purge tower in default or Tower Delta mode you can limit
; its speed in mm/mm using PURGETOPSPEED. Note: FULLPURGEREDUCTION turns off PS's
; Tower mode and lets P2PP generate it.
; The WIPEFEEDRATE is the max feedrate during wiping.
;P2PP PURGETOPSPEED 7200
;P2PP PURGETOWERDELTA=0
;P2PP WIPEFEEDRATE=7000
; I use X2PP for disabled options
;X2PP FULLPURGEREDUCTION
;X2PP AUTOADDPURGE
; Leave the Tool Change commands in the GCODE so they can be previewed
; in GCode viewers
;X2PP DEBUGTCOMMAND
; DEBUG OPTION IF REQUESTED to send UNPROCESSED GCODE
;X2PP SAVEUNPROCESSED
;Extrusion Multiplier Correction
;X2PP EXTRUSIONMULTIPLIERCORRECTION=1
; Always do a Console Wait
;X2PP CONSOLEWAIT
; P3 Uploadeing from PrusaSlicer...
; >>> ENABLE FILE UPLOADING and ON ONLINE INTERFACE in P3 Setup Menu <<<
; DONE!!
; PREHEAD extruder when Palette starts generating filament
;P2PP P3_PROCESSPREHEAT
; Activate P3 upload in PrusaSlicer... IP Addr or Host Name (found in
; Palette 3 Menu - SETTINGS - ABOUT as serial number. Add .local at end)
;P2PP P3_HOSTNAME=192.168.1.12
;P2PP P3_UPLOADFILE
; Show Pop-up menu in Palette after file is loaded, allows print start
;P2PP P3_SHOWPRINTERPAGE
; If Palette is upside down... reverse the display
;X2PP P3_ROTATEINTERFACE
; Set the printer's Palette Profile ID (must be unique for each printer)
;P2PP PRINTERPROFILE=56a564b6077fa7bb84ea1c9097193a28
; Set Palette's PING interval
;P2PP LINEARPINGLENGTH=250
; Set Palette's SPLICE offset, min Start Splice and min Splice lengths
; SpliceOffset is the extra length added to 1st splice. When there's a
; color change it will still print the old color for SPLICEOFFSET mm, a
; small buffer. If too small could lead to early transitions, too large
; could lead to color bleeding. 34 to 40 seem good values
;P2PP SPLICEOFFSET=37
; Palette2 is limited to 130mm for 1st splice, 80 after. Can be brought
; down slightly later.
;P2PP MINSTARTSPLICE=130
;P2PP MINSPLICE=80
; Put Palette in Absolute calculation mode
;P2PP ABSOLUTEEXTRUDER
; PALETTED SPLICE TUNING VALUES (heat, compression, cooling).
; Default is used for any that are unspecified...
; Filament Overrides create new filament variations, here I use
; PS's default PET (for PETG Solid color) and for transparent
; PETG I set a FILAMENTOVERRIDE=PETT (Transparent)
;X2PP FILAMENTOVERRIDE=PETT
; 2 1 3 got stuck (too fat)... trying 2 0 3 now
;P2PP MATERIAL_DEFAULT_3_2_2
;P2PP MATERIAL_PET_PET_3_2_2
;X2PP MATERIAL_PETT_PETT_3_1_2
; Paletted extra END filament, 100-150 for direct drive
;P2PP EXTRAENDFILAMENT=100
; Check for newer P2PP when run
;P2PP CHECKVERSION
; Indicate P2PP CONFIGURATION END
;P2PP CONFIGEND
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Thank you Tom! That did clear the haze. I also tried manually (not using Palette3) a "Gears to Extruder Tip" test, purging from White to New Black, Black loaded just to the gears. 63mm of extrusion manually, and the nozzle started showing Black. I tried that with Palette3. It was saying "you're over extruded" (when I extruded 63mm), but the print looked good. SO... I think I've got this loading procedure working. Thanks again. |
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Hi, this Q is about getting Palette3 Pro properly synchronized at print start.
I have a Formbot Troodon 2.0 printer, a Voron-like coreXY printer on Reprapfirmware. Key points:
• Direct Drive, ESteps/mm calibrated,
• USB Connected Mode works with P3P
• P2PP file transfer to Palette works over WiFi,
• Printer prints P2PP’s file but but out of Color sync.
Background: The P3’s provided Velcro coupler won’t work on this extruder (since it blocks the feed latches). But, that isn’t a problem, because the Palette’s feed tube fits precisely into the Troodon’s extruder. You can insert it about ½” in the feed hole, then it’s held firmly in place. (see Pix here MS OneDrive: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Arf1YeMUEh5Gm7oIdN4oq82kfunQew?e=8TSwAL )
The problem is getting Palette3 to synchronize with its SMART LOAD feature (which as I understand it, is the only Palette 3 option to load filament at start).
DETAILS:
• The P2PP manual shows getting the filament to just meet the extruder gears, no problem. But when Palette generates that filament and requests you to load it, the feed tube is above the Direct Drive Extruder feed hole by about 3” (see pix). This is the start of the Issue.
• Next, Palette3 wants you to Attach the Tube, so it can see filament being PULLED during Smart Load in the next step. But since the tube is still 3” above the extruder, Smart Load doesn’t SEE filament being pulled. (I use the long 110mm feed tube, which just bends during that initial Smart Load extrusion).
• P3P then gives an error saying it doesn’t see filament being pulled through, which is actually correct, though in fact the extruder did extrude a small amount of filament, and the feed tube has drawn nearer to the Extruder by that same amount.
• Repeated clicks on Ok, and Smart Load again and again finally gets the Feed Tube to meet the Extruder and inserted, after which the Palette now SEES the filament being pulled through - Smart Load completes.
But these repeated Smart Load attempts, which does small extrusion that the Palette “doesn’t see”, creates an “out of Sync” situation: ~3” of filament have already been extruded to get the feed tube to meet the Extruder. This is what I’m trying to resolve. How do I properly synchronize filament loading with Smart Load, given this situation.
I presume my issue has something to do with either the Load Offset or Splice Offset. I believe that if the Palette generated just enough filament to “meet the extruder gears” plus some small addition I can extrude manually to get the feed tube into the extruder, Smart Load would complete without errors and be in sync with the rest of the print job. But this is just a guess. My P2PP setup is below.
Measurements for reference:
• Feed tube length: 110mm
• Top of extruder to tip: 120mm
• Top of extruder to feed gears: 36mm
• Feed gears to nozzle: 120-36 = 84mm
Naïve Questions:
Q: is P2PP’s SPLICEOFFSET creating the extra inches of filament coming out the feed tube (at start of print)?
Q: When I have a long strand of filament hanging from the tube at start (as shown), should I just Manually extrude that part until the feed tube meets and couples with the Extruder (then proceed with SMART LOAD)? Again, I need to be in sync with Palette’s idea of how much filament has been extruded.
I think you probably understand my issue. Advice on how to proceed? Thank you!
===== My P2PP Configuration =====
;P2PP PALETTE3_PRO
; TOWER MANAGEMENT - if the purge tower is lower than the print height, when
; the toolhead descends to the tower it can BUMP the print. To disable small
; towers set delta to 0, otherwise the number is mm it can be smaller
; than the print (use 999 for any variation in size allowed, good for prints
; having long stretches without color change).
; PURGETOPSPEED
; If using PS's enerated purge tower in default or Tower Delta mode you can limit
; its speed in mm/mm using PURGETOPSPEED. Note: FULLPURGEREDUCTION turns off PS's
; Tower mode and lets P2PP generate it.
; The WIPEFEEDRATE is the max feedrate during wiping.
;P2PP PURGETOPSPEED 7200
;P2PP PURGETOWERDELTA=0
;P2PP WIPEFEEDRATE=7000
; I use X2PP for disabled options
;X2PP FULLPURGEREDUCTION
;X2PP AUTOADDPURGE
; Leave the Tool Change commands in the GCODE so they can be previewed
; in GCode viewers
;X2PP DEBUGTCOMMAND
; DEBUG OPTION IF REQUESTED to send UNPROCESSED GCODE
;X2PP SAVEUNPROCESSED
;Extrusion Multiplier Correction
;X2PP EXTRUSIONMULTIPLIERCORRECTION=1
; Always do a Console Wait
;X2PP CONSOLEWAIT
; P3 Uploadeing from PrusaSlicer...
; >>> ENABLE FILE UPLOADING and ON ONLINE INTERFACE in P3 Setup Menu <<<
; DONE!!
; PREHEAD extruder when Palette starts generating filament
;P2PP P3_PROCESSPREHEAT
; Activate P3 upload in PrusaSlicer... IP Addr or Host Name (found in
; Palette 3 Menu - SETTINGS - ABOUT as serial number. Add .local at end)
;P2PP P3_HOSTNAME=192.168.1.12
;P2PP P3_UPLOADFILE
; Show Pop-up menu in Palette after file is loaded, allows print start
;P2PP P3_SHOWPRINTERPAGE
; If Palette is upside down... reverse the display
;X2PP P3_ROTATEINTERFACE
; Set the printer's Palette Profile ID (must be unique for each printer)
;P2PP PRINTERPROFILE=56a564b6077fa7bb84ea1c9097193a28
; Set Palette's PING interval
;P2PP LINEARPINGLENGTH=250
; Set Palette's SPLICE offset, min Start Splice and min Splice lengths
; SpliceOffset is the extra length added to 1st splice. When there's a
; color change it will still print the old color for SPLICEOFFSET mm, a
; small buffer. If too small could lead to early transitions, too large
; could lead to color bleeding. 34 to 40 seem good values
;P2PP SPLICEOFFSET=37
; Palette2 is limited to 130mm for 1st splice, 80 after. Can be brought
; down slightly later.
;P2PP MINSTARTSPLICE=130
;P2PP MINSPLICE=80
; Put Palette in Absolute calculation mode
;P2PP ABSOLUTEEXTRUDER
; PALETTED SPLICE TUNING VALUES (heat, compression, cooling).
; Default is used for any that are unspecified...
; Filament Overrides create new filament variations, here I use
; PS's default PET (for PETG Solid color) and for transparent
; PETG I set a FILAMENTOVERRIDE=PETT (Transparent)
;X2PP FILAMENTOVERRIDE=PETT
; 2 1 3 got stuck (too fat)... trying 2 0 3 now
;P2PP MATERIAL_DEFAULT_3_2_2
;P2PP MATERIAL_PET_PET_3_2_2
;X2PP MATERIAL_PETT_PETT_3_1_2
; Paletted extra END filament, 100-150 for direct drive
;P2PP EXTRAENDFILAMENT=100
; Check for newer P2PP when run
;P2PP CHECKVERSION
; Indicate P2PP CONFIGURATION END
;P2PP CONFIGEND
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