Non Combat Move Unloading From Transports Unloaded During Combat Move (2.0.18289)

[Cernelius]

So, this is a problem I already reported, and it got closed without a fix, so opening it again, with hope.

CORRECT BEHAVIOUR: In "World War II Revised" (thus in any games following the same ruleset, like "Big World", "Pact of Steel", "New World Order", "World At War", and so on), as well as in "Europe" and "Pacific" (the originals), owned or allied units that offloaded one or more units, during the Combat Move phase, can still offload units, during the Non Combat Move phase, but all units offloaded, during the Non Combat Move phase, from a same one of these units, if any, may only do so together into the same zone as the units that were offloaded, from the same unit, during the Combat Move phase.

CURRENT WRONG BEHAVIOUR: In "World War II Revised", as well as in "Europe" and "Pacific" (the originals), units that offloaded any units, during Combat Move, cannot offload any units, during Non Combat Move.

OTHER INFORMATION: This behaviour applies only to "V2" rules games, except not to "V2LHTR" rules, and it also applies to "Europe" and "Pacific", but not to any other versions (it doesn't apply to V1, V3, V4, V5, V6, nor Europe/Pacific/Global 1940 I and II).

Reproduction steps:
Select "World War II Revised" and start the game.
Turn Edit Mode on.
Edit 1 transport and 1 infantry into SZ 4.
Turn Edit Mode off.
Skip to the Combat Move phase.
Load 1 infantry or 1 armour onto the transport in SZ 4 (so having 2 infantries or 1 infantry and 1 armour on the transport), move the transport to SZ 3, offload 1 infantry or 1 armour into Norway, also attacking Norway with everything else at reach, except leaving 1 infantry in the transport.
If you take Norway, verify that the program doesn't let you offload the remaining infantry, during Non Combat Move.

What should have happened, instead:
You should be able to offload the remaining infantry, during Non Combat Move, if you take Norway.

Main user case:
I believe the main user case is having 1 infantry and 1 aaGun already on board of the transport, using the infantry to make a sea borne invasion, then offloading the aaGun, into the same territory, during Non Combat Move. This is a legal sequence of moves, for Revised (except LHTR), that the program doesn't let you do.

If a developer has any will of taking over this matter, I can add more considerations and commentary about how to implement this change (with additional properties, and so on). Sadly, there is the problem that "V2LHTR" lacks a distinct property. However, even making this change for "V2" in general would be good, as "LHTR" is vastly in the minority, both as a number of games and as popularity of them.

@panther2 If you can please confirm the rules at this issue, do so (I don't need it, as I'm sure that all I've said is correct, but maybe not any developers, that might be interested in fixing the problem, are) (also let's not start talking again that from V2LHTR onwards this is always impossible, as I believe I made it clear enough, this time).

[Cernelius]

This is the previous issue, reporting the same problem, also having a save game for 1.9.0.0, to test it:
#1148

[DanVanAtta]

@Cernelius a save game with the repro steps already done would be really great. Essentially that save would be a case where you can say "this infantry, i can move them to this territory, but they should only be allowed to move this other territory".

Thank you for re-cutting this issue, it seems relatively clear (maybe not perfectly minimized 😁 ,but certainly straight forward and specific enough we know what needs to be done).

Just to be sure, the 'offload to the same territory in non-combat as during combat move', that rule applies to all rule variants?

[Cernelius]

a save game with the repro steps already done would be really great.

Taken with the current stable or with the referenced prerelease?

But I don't think a save is really needed, here. You can just take "Revised" and edit 1 transport with 2 infantry inside. Then, you should be able to offload 1 during CM and the second one during NCM, to the same territory as before. This is easier than downloading and finding a savegame.

Just to be sure, the 'offload to the same territory in non-combat as during combat move', that rule applies to all rule variants?

No.
I already answered in "OTHER INFORMATION":

This behaviour applies only to "V2" rules games, except not to "V2LHTR" rules, and it also applies to "Europe" and "Pacific", but not to any other versions (it doesn't apply to V1, V3, V4, V5, V6, nor Europe/Pacific/Global 1940 I and II).

In practice, there was not this rule in the original v1.
This ability, to split offloading between CM and NCM, has been introduced in v2, but taken out in v2LHTR, and never subsequently reintroduced.
However, also "Europe" and "Pacific" have this ability (I mean the originals, called simply as that, that you can find in "Experimental", not the 1940 series of Europe/Pacific/Global), but this is not really important, as those games are both unfinished.

[DanVanAtta]

Re: save game

Current latest prerelease. Partially the idea is the save game is attached to this save. During development we typically need to create such save games, it's faster than redoing the edit to see if we fixed the issue exactly. I'd guess we have to recreate a scenario in a game about a half dozen times while we work on fixes to be sure we have everything covered. I'll even sometime take save games if all I need is just to be in phase 3 of the first players turn, it's still faster than clicking done three times.

Out of context, but as a larger scope, I'm thinking it would be really formal if we had a save game attached to each bug that put the game in the exact spot of the bug. It makes it clearer what the bug is, gives a repro case for developers to work with, saves the work of having to create a save game when development takes place and attempts to confirm a fix.

Re: variants

Ah, sorry, I missed that detail. I'm thinking someone will want example maps for each rule variant listed to be sure we are looking at the right example. Rather than documenting this list in just this issue, I created a starter wiki page to define that mapping. Hence forward when we refer to V2LHTR, we'll have a specific reference map for that rule set. @Cernelius would you mind filling the wiki page with some example maps that implement each rule set? https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/wiki/Game-Rule-Sets

[Cernelius]

@Cernelius would you mind filling the wiki page with some example maps that implement each rule set? https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/wiki/Game-Rule-Sets

I cannot do that the way the header is worded. It should not say "Example Map(s)", it should say "Example Games". In particular, the original V2 and V2LHTR are a same map.

[Cernelius]

Also "Global 1940" is not really a ruleset. Even if we ignore all the various "alpha", it should be at least split into "I" and "II" edition (some major rules differences, like the AA guns). The other matter is that v1 also has two different rulesets, the original (second edition, since TripleA starts from that, not from the actual first edition), and the third edition (adding a series of rules changes, some of the implemented, like defensive submersible subs, some of them not, like paratroopers or rolling all dice at once), but now we are clearly going off topic here... Moreover, to minimize confusion, I would say "Europe/Pacific/Global 1940", instead of just "Global 1940".

[DanVanAtta]

Feel free to change the table as needed

…

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 11:49 PM Cernelius ***@***.***> wrote: Also "Global 1940" is not really a ruleset. Even if we ignore all the various "alpha", it should be at least split into "I" and "II" edition (some major rules differences, like the AA guns). The other matter is that v1 also has two different rulesets, the original (second edition, since TripleA starts from that, not from the actual first edition), and the third edition (adding a series of rules changes, some of the implemented, like defensive submersible subs, some of them not, like paratroopers or rolling all dice at once), but now we are clearly going off topic here... Moreover, to minimize confusion, I would say "Europe/Pacific/Global 1940", instead of just "Global 1940". — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6039 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AC6SZOODCY5HDPPPQJ5NL43RHCAZHANCNFSM4LFVTCUQ> .

[Cernelius]

Feel free to change the table as needed

@DanVanAtta Done.
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/wiki/Game-Rule-Sets

@panther2 Maybe you want to take a look.

[Cernelius]

So, to repeat, of all that list, this problem is relevant for:
V2 Basic
Europe
Pacific

while there is no problem for:
V1.II
V1.III
V2 LHTR
V3
V4
V5 (and V6)
Europe/Pacific/Global 1940.I
Europe/Pacific/Global 1940.II

Meaning that, in all the games at the first list, a same transport can offload part of its cargo in CM and part in NCM, while all the games at the second list never can.

[Cernelius]

Also, are you sure you want to call the first column "Rule Variant". Itself, that's fine, but I'd call it "Ruleset", because "variant" is traditionally used to mean a map or game modification, around here. Also, in practice, each ruleset is indeed a "set" of properties, thus it makes the most sense that way, rather than "variant".

[panther2]

@Cernelius
The table looks good to me, and I agree with "Ruleset" being more appropriate than "Variant".

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