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[css-text] hanging punctuation: ink vs scrollable overflow #2398
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Closed Accepted by CSSWG Resolution
css-text-3
Current Work
i18n-clreq
Chinese language enablement
i18n-jlreq
Japanese language enablement
i18n-tracker
Group bringing to attention of Internationalization, or tracked by i18n but not needing response.
Tested
Memory aid - issue has WPT tests
Tracked in DoC
Comments
The Working Group just discussed
The full IRC log of that discussion<fantasai> Topic: hanging-punctuation and overflow<fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-3/issues-lc-2013#issue-123 <dael> GITHUB: https://github.com//issues/2398 <fantasai> github: https://github.com//issues/2398 <dael> fantasai: This is about if hanging punct is ink or scroll overflow. Current prop is that it must be treated as ink in the general case and scrollable when editable. <dael> astearns: Threading the needle. <dael> fremy: Test case? <dael> fantasai: Try to make one. <dael> florian: Overall ink is preferable, esp Japanese punctuation marks. If you make them scrollable authors are in trouble because if they have 1/2em overflow you have invisible text. However when you're editing you want to get to everything. <dael> myles: Would there be a case for less them 1em? <dael> florian: Yes because it doesn't look 1em. The glyph is 1em and the ink is not. <dael> myles: If hanging punct is 1 character. <dael> florian: Charaters that hang don't fill box. <dael> myles: Ink doesn't. I want to look at actual examples because my inturition is that because a character hangs there would be 1 em of actual space. <dael> florian: The insutation of [missed] is that it would be less. It is not a full width character and should have the size ink indicates and the rest is a historical accident back to typing with blocks. People thinking of it as the space it consumes. BUt I don't have data. <dael> florian: Expert opinion. Not data. <astearns> s/[missed]/kobayashi-san <dael> koji: Hanging punct in CJK looks more natural in ink but David Hyatt did the scrollable overflow. <dael> florian: I think scrollable will trigger a bunch of scrollbars <dael> fantasai: When you have a scrollbar you dont want text to run against he edge of the scrollbar. You want breathing which is typically > 1/2em. A bunch of text in a scrollable cotnainer would have an em of padding <dael> florian: A container that's overflow:auto with intent that the scrollbars will never appear . <dael> myles: If fear is we'll create a bunch of scrollbars let's try and see <dael> florian: Another piece of issue is that we're also saying preserved white space when there's too much it's treated as hanging and you would also cause scrollbars <dael> fantasai: Advantage of scrollable overflow is when you're tyring to select them you can see them. <dael> myles: If there's not collapsable spaces you should be able to get to the spaces. <dael> myles: Having non-collapsed spaces and being editable are separate. <dael> florian: For editing they must be scrollable. If that's true in the general case I worry about scrollbars allover. <dael> koji: Only webkit impl. If webkit can try it out. <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%40supports%20(hanging-punctuation%3A%20last)%20%7B%20html%20%7B%20background%3A%20green%3B%20%7D%20%7D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22width%3A%204em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20silver%3B%20hanging-punctuation%3A%20force-end%22%3E%0A%E4%B8%80%E4%BA%9B%E6%B1%89%E5%AD%97%E3%80%82%20 <dael> fantasai: You treat it as ink overflow? <dael> myles: I believe so. <JohnDoe> Romoving word-break:break-word is big mistake https://github.com//issues/2390 <dael> fantasai: Test case^ <dael> fantasai: Add overflow scroll to it. <JohnDoe> Github: https://github.com//issues/2390 <dael> myles: Not scrollable. <dael> github: https://github.com//issues/2398 <dael> [fiddling with test case] <dael> myles: Inconclusive. I can't get anything to hang over. <dael> florian: From PoV of editing with a single punct overflowing it wont be a big different. It's preferable scrollable. <dael> myles: So it should be scrollable overflow and if it's a problem we can come back. <dael> astearns: Sounds like we have consensus to define hanging punctuation as scrollable overflow. <dael> astearns: Do we want a note about concerns? <dael> fantasai: I think people can complain about it. <dael> astearns: Objections to define hanging punctuation as scrollable overflow in all cases? <dael> RESOLVED: define hanging punctuation as scrollable overflow in all cases <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-3/issues-lc-2013#issue-133 <fantasai> github: https://github.com//issues/869 <dael> github: https://github.com//issues/2398 |
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Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398
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Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398
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…llable overflow, a=testonly Automatic update from web-platform-tests[css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398 -- Merge pull request #11375 from frivoal/css-text-2398 [css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow -- wpt-commits: e93c468fcfd71112be7be632caa2762124ff3368, d74aa5de90a672c87d3f8031cf2d88f00f6d8466 wpt-pr: 11375
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…llable overflow, a=testonly Automatic update from web-platform-tests[css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398 -- Merge pull request #11375 from frivoal/css-text-2398 [css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow -- wpt-commits: e93c468fcfd71112be7be632caa2762124ff3368, d74aa5de90a672c87d3f8031cf2d88f00f6d8466 wpt-pr: 11375
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…llable overflow, a=testonly Automatic update from web-platform-tests[css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398 -- Merge pull request #11375 from frivoal/css-text-2398 [css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow -- wpt-commits: e93c468fcfd71112be7be632caa2762124ff3368, d74aa5de90a672c87d3f8031cf2d88f00f6d8466 wpt-pr: 11375 UltraBlame original commit: 2dfec98c04a250286a7c072633ece4da0d699b8b
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…llable overflow, a=testonly Automatic update from web-platform-tests[css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398 -- Merge pull request #11375 from frivoal/css-text-2398 [css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow -- wpt-commits: e93c468fcfd71112be7be632caa2762124ff3368, d74aa5de90a672c87d3f8031cf2d88f00f6d8466 wpt-pr: 11375 UltraBlame original commit: 2dfec98c04a250286a7c072633ece4da0d699b8b
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…llable overflow, a=testonly Automatic update from web-platform-tests[css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow Relates to the spec changes decided in w3c/csswg-drafts#2398 -- Merge pull request #11375 from frivoal/css-text-2398 [css-text-3] Hanging punctuation is scrollable overflow -- wpt-commits: e93c468fcfd71112be7be632caa2762124ff3368, d74aa5de90a672c87d3f8031cf2d88f00f6d8466 wpt-pr: 11375 UltraBlame original commit: 2dfec98c04a250286a7c072633ece4da0d699b8b
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Labels
Closed Accepted by CSSWG Resolution
css-text-3
Current Work
i18n-clreq
Chinese language enablement
i18n-jlreq
Japanese language enablement
i18n-tracker
Group bringing to attention of Internationalization, or tracked by i18n but not needing response.
Tested
Memory aid - issue has WPT tests
Tracked in DoC
original mail thread starts here (sub-point 6)
key arguments for and against:
Also, we've made preserved white-space at the end of a line be treated as hanging for the specific purposed of having it be ink overflow.
I would suggest:
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