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[css-counter-styles] Clarification on use of the term "speak-as" and possible alternatives #6040
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Some more implementation feedback from Chrome: The way how Consequently, the implementation of
So I'm also looking for possibilities to revise |
Fwiw, my understanding of
(my emphasis). The rest of the spec contains phrases like "speaks a UA-defined phrase or audio cue", "being read out", "speak it as normal text in the content language", "how to pronounce the symbols", "read out as (in phonetic notation) /a/..." and "pronunciation". I don't see how any of that applies to AT other than speech synthesizers. Ideally, the UA should provide both the default form and the |
For limitations of the current design, also see #387. |
…k-as' isn't just for speech synthesizers. #6040
I've added some clarifying text that this is meant to handle any non-visual rendering medium; it's just hard to talk about these things in generic terms and still make sense. Hopefully the intro paragraph, and Note following the values, clears things up. If we still need to rename the descriptor, we probably can, but I'd prefer not to churn if we don't have to.
Yes.
Correct, tho I'm not sure what you mean by "spec text doesn't seem very related". It says to speak out the numeric value; what you just described seems to be exactly that.
Yup, you've got it right, just feeding the counter-representation to the screen reader is correct.
You should probably be able to get this to work at least approximately correct by splitting on grapheme clusters and putting spaces between them, then feeding them to the screen reader. Best effort is what we're going for here; it's just wrong to read a list item counter like |
…. It may be used for other AT. #6040
I agree with @MatsPalmgren's comments in #6040 (comment) . The I pushed some edits to make this clearer. Basically, the idea is that the
@dot-miniscule @xiaochengh @MatsPalmgren Let us know if this works for you? |
@fantasai Thanks, that clarifies the intent for me. I agree that it's impossible for the UA to know the exact capabilities of the AT device (and user preference), so ideally the UA would provide an API to let the AT access both forms and use them as it sees fit. |
The current spec says:
The
speak-as
descriptor is essentially providing a description of how to resolve the counter style to present it to AT users, which is often a screenreader outputting speech, but not always (for example, braille displays). The namespeak-as
is therefore slightly misleading, as it won't always be speech, and in any case we don't directly control the speech that a screenreader outputs. We provide it with some text string it uses to make an announcement.A different name for this descriptor would be more accurate. One option is to use
alt
, a well known shorthand for "alternative text", meaning the textual representation or description for some visual UI. Since this is well established nomenclature, most devs will probably understand what they are being asked to provide. However, usingalt
alone might not be sufficient, as this normally implies a fixed text value, whereas in this case it is more like a translation system (resolving the given value in order to synthesize a textual description of the counter style, rather than announcing the value directly). Therefore, it might be more accurate to use something likealt-text-style
ortext-alt-style
(to keep it similar tocounter-style
).CSS Counter Styles are shipped in Firefox, and this feature is shipping soon in Chrome, but without support for the
speak-as
descriptor. We thought this might be a good opportunity to gain some clarity on the syntax, or understand why this name was chosen.The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: