updated README.md with new format of home #258

himorin · 2021-04-04T11:28:52Z

@kidayasuo we have a new format of our home, which will also be listed in w3.org/International/ site, currently placed as home.md in this repository.
It seems there are several items need to be discussed, and I'm raising this PR (rather than updating #256).

We have both -jlreq-admin and -i18n-japanese lists, and there are some lines to list these in new home.md. We need to decide which to list at where
- -i18n-japanese is for discussions (mainly in Japanese), but I think we discussed to set this list public but not welcome subscribe for just watching?
- -jlreq-admin is for administrative and posting summaries of discussions (for now)
do we have tracker like for arabic? (I assume no)
we don't have concrete plan of meetings (usually picking from Tue 10am JST), nor no meeting information page. Do we want to have a link of "Meeting Information"?

note: #256 will be merged after this PR landed.

xfq · 2021-04-05T01:20:54Z

do we have tracker like for arabic? (I assume no)

Looking at https://www.w3.org/2011/04/dbwg/group-services?gid=109193 it indeed seems that we don't have one set up (or that it was removed by the systeam, perhaps).

xfq · 2021-04-05T01:23:56Z

README.md


-JLReq タスクフォースは、Web や eBook で日本語をサポートするための要件と現実のギャップ (gap) や要件 (requirements) 自体について、エキスパートの人たちが知識を交換・共有するために作りました。
+日本語をウェブや eBook で利用可能にするためのギャップ解析を行い、また要件を文書化するための場所です。


Should we change ギャップ解析 to ギャップ分析 to be more consistent with the document name below?

fixed. thank you!

xfq · 2021-04-05T01:30:27Z

It looks like we removed the public-i18n-cjk mailing list. Are we going to abandon it, @r12a?

r12a · 2021-04-06T09:19:59Z

It looks like we removed the public-i18n-cjk mailing list. Are we going to abandon it, @r12a?

As i remember it, the jlreq group created the public-i18n-japanese list because they didn't want to use the public-i18n-cjk list. As far as the jlreq group is concerned, i think the public-i18n-cjk list is now irrelevant.

However, since that time i have been thinking that we should also consider value of having the cjk list when most japanese folks will not be following it, or will be getting duplicate daily notifications if they do. That cjk list was originally set up to allow cross-fertilization of ideas that are common to all groups, such as aspects of vertical text or ruby, but the discussions it actually hosts are, i think, in fact language-specific most of the time, and therefore too distracting to korean people who are not interested in chinese-specific or chinese people not interested in korean-specific topics. There are other ways we can produce the cross-fertilization, as in fact we currently have to anyway for mongolian, which also has related vertical text and ruby interests.

It seems to me that, because the jlreq and clreq groups are very active, it would probably be better to create public-i18n-chinese, and public-i18n-korean lists and no longer use the public-i18n-cjk list.

That said, the charters of each group should probably mention that the public-i18n-cjk archive contains some historical discussions that may be of interest, while clearly indicating that it is not currently used.

r12a · 2021-04-06T09:24:52Z

-i18n-japanese is for discussions (mainly in Japanese), but I think we discussed to set this list public but not welcome subscribe for just watching?

The public must have a way to interact with the group, but actually this should be by raising GitHub issues (which are then notified to the public-i18n-japanese list). I wouldn't make a meal of describing the use of the japanese list – just mention that it's there.

r12a · 2021-04-06T09:32:23Z

Oh, and i would strongly recommend keeping the admin list for its intended admin use, such as arranging meetings or other administravia, and keeping those out of the public-i18n-japanese list.

r12a · 2021-04-06T09:35:28Z

we don't have concrete plan of meetings (usually picking from Tue 10am JST), nor no meeting information page. Do we want to have a link of "Meeting Information"?

I think you should have a meeting information page (in member-only date space) that you can point to in the agenda or meeting announcement as well as on the home page. I recommend using the i18n wg page as a template, since that received some thought and experience-based redesign. It doesn't matter if the jlreq group doesn't have a regular date for meetings.

xfq · 2021-04-07T04:47:13Z

It seems to me that, because the jlreq and clreq groups are very active, it would probably be better to create public-i18n-chinese, and public-i18n-korean lists and no longer use the public-i18n-cjk list.

Not sure about the klreq group, but it looks like the current participants of the clreq group are comfortable using GitHub, and I don't think there is need for a separate list. We can send the meeting agenda/minutes to the admin list and discuss on GitHub.

r12a · 2021-04-07T08:31:40Z

Ok for the group members, but the public needs to be able to subscribe to a mailing list to receive notifications of GH changes. That is currently public-i18n-cjk, but would be the new publc-i18n-chinese list.

himorin · 2021-04-08T02:02:25Z

we don't have concrete plan of meetings (usually picking from Tue 10am JST), nor no meeting information page. Do we want to have a link of "Meeting Information"?

I think you should have a meeting information page (in member-only date space) that you can point to in the agenda or meeting announcement as well as on the home page. I recommend using the i18n wg page as a template, since that received some thought and experience-based redesign. It doesn't matter if the jlreq group doesn't have a regular date for meetings.

I've thought about having one in member only space while ago, but I've noticed that most of JL-TF participants do not have member access (or say no IE status) and gave up. But at this moment, I've noticed that I can configure permissions to include task force group, so let me add a page (like one for arabic, in /2021/04/ or something), and set permissions as member + JL-TF.

r12a · 2021-04-08T10:45:27Z

Thanks for setting up the page. You did the right thing wrt access permissions. Small nit: you need to change
"members of the Arabic Layout Task Force" -> "members of the Japanese Layout Task Force"

r12a · 2021-04-08T10:47:46Z

How are we doing wrt converting the README page to the new content and providing a translation? (Once it's done, i'll change the links from various pages to point to home.md.)

r12a · 2021-04-12T09:35:32Z

README.md

@@ -44,20 +44,21 @@ You can participate in the task force work at various levels. In order of increa

 このタスクフォースにはいくつかの立場で参加可能です。活動を活発にするために、追跡者、貢献者、参加者、編者、議長の分類があります。それぞれの詳細は、[参加の立場](https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-drafts/pages/task_force_roles)についてのリストを参照してください。

-**To just follow the work:** Rather than 'Watch' this repository, [subscribe](mailto:public-i18n-japanese-request@w3.org?subject=subscribe) to the [public-i18n-japanese](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-japanese/) mailing list. That list is notified (no more than once a day, and in digest form), about changes to issues in this repository, but also about other W3C Working Group issues related to the Japanese writing systems.
+**To just follow the work:** Rather than 'Watch' this repository, [subscribe](mailto:public-jlreq-admin-request@w3.org?subject=subscribe) to the [public-jlreq-admin](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-jlreq-admin/) mailing list. That list is notified (no more than once a day, and in digest form), about changes to issues in this repository, but also about other W3C Working Group issues related to the Japanese writing systems.


Why is this changed? People who want to follow the work (without joining the group) want to follow the technical discussion, not the admin.

Sorry, this is draft under discussion with Kida-san.

r12a · 2021-04-12T09:38:15Z

README.md


-Note: The public-i18n-cjk mailing list is used to send notification digests & meeting minutes. It is **not** for technical discussion.
+Note that the public-jlreq-admin mailing list is used to send notification digests & meeting minutes. It is **not** for technical discussion.


Notifications are not sent to the admin list, because it's not for technical discussion.

ie. "public-jlreq-admin" should say "public-i18n-japanese".

I assume that you are trying to get around the fact that members of the jlreq group are resisting the use of github issues and continue to discuss things by email. The answer to that is to carefully manage the wording about use of that list – not to switch users to the admin list.

I suggest that, since we are unable to convince group members to follow the normal process, we replace "It is not for technical discussion." with "Some technical discussion takes place on that list for the Japanese language enablement, but it is strongly preferred to use GitHub issues whenever possible."

r12a · 2021-04-12T10:00:38Z

README.md


 **To contribute content:** All contributors should read and agree with [CONTRIBUTING.md](CONTRIBUTING.md).

 **文書に貢献するには:** 全ての参加者は  [CONTRIBUTING.md](CONTRIBUTING.md) を読み、それに同意する必要があります。

-**To become a participant, editor, or chair:** contact [Richard Ishida](mailto:ishida@w3.org) or [木田泰夫 (Yasuo Kida)](mailto:kida@me.com). We welcome participation requests. 
+**To become a participant, editor, or chair:** contact [Richard Ishida](mailto:ishida@w3.org) or [木田泰夫 (Yasuo Kida)](mailto:kida@me.com). We welcome participation requests. In addition to discussions at [GitHub issues](https://github.com/w3c/jlreq/issues), this group operates discussion mailing list ([public-i18n-japanese](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-japanese/)) in Japanese.


Remove the third sentence.

r12a

Please sort out this confusion around list usage. Contact me by IRC or phone if you need to discuss.

per w3c/jlreq#258 (comment)

himorin · 2021-04-21T10:10:53Z

pointed out during discussion w/Kida-san: seems no link/mention to CEPC?

kidayasuo · 2021-05-22T07:24:32Z

I am fine without mentioning the CEPC in the "To just follow the work" section. I would like to keep the document as simple as possible.

himorin · 2021-05-22T08:01:31Z

@r12a @xfq requesting review on the latest version.

r12a

Sorry i missed this request for review. Looks good to me.

himorin · 2021-06-03T16:38:56Z

Really thank you for review! I'll merge PRs related to this.

updated README.md with new format of home

05c3eaf

himorin requested review from r12a and kidayasuo April 4, 2021 11:28

xfq reviewed Apr 5, 2021

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fixed per @xfq comment

4c12eaf

added meeting info

68b37ef

himorin added 2 commits April 12, 2021 17:47

updated README for mail lists

0c4a693

added missing translation

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r12a reviewed Apr 12, 2021

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r12a requested changes Apr 12, 2021

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xfq added a commit to w3c/clreq that referenced this pull request Apr 20, 2021

public-i18n-cjk -> public-i18n-chinese

3ef4a86

per w3c/jlreq#258 (comment)

xfq added a commit to w3c/clreq that referenced this pull request Apr 20, 2021

public-i18n-cjk -> public-i18n-chinese

40760ab

per w3c/jlreq#258 (comment)

xfq added a commit to w3c/github-notify-ml-config that referenced this pull request Apr 20, 2021

Add public-i18n-chinese

ccd6e8b

per w3c/jlreq#258 (comment)

revert 0c4a693 and updated description for -i18n-japanese

b936350

himorin requested a review from r12a May 22, 2021 08:00

himorin requested a review from xfq May 22, 2021 08:00

r12a approved these changes Jun 3, 2021

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himorin merged commit ff68204 into w3c:gh-pages Jun 3, 2021

himorin mentioned this pull request Jun 3, 2021

home.md as symlink #256

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updated README.md with new format of home #258

updated README.md with new format of home #258

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himorin commented Jun 3, 2021


		JLReq タスクフォースは、Web や eBook で日本語をサポートするための要件と現実のギャップ (gap) や要件 (requirements) 自体について、エキスパートの人たちが知識を交換・共有するために作りました。
		日本語をウェブや eBook で利用可能にするためのギャップ解析を行い、また要件を文書化するための場所です。


		Note: The public-i18n-cjk mailing list is used to send notification digests & meeting minutes. It is not for technical discussion.
		Note that the public-jlreq-admin mailing list is used to send notification digests & meeting minutes. It is not for technical discussion.

updated README.md with new format of home #258

updated README.md with new format of home #258

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