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Presentation - add Session Title, maybe Chair #60
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What is the CSL item type? Would editor work? |
sorry, I actually meant editor, not container-author. CSL item type is speech. That still has the issue, though, that the label would be wrong. |
Ugh. |
OK, now that I got over my initial reaction, thoughts ... A conference session is not conceptually similar to a "container," so that seems a stretch, that could have unintended negative consequences. The conference is an "event." Effectively a conference session is thus a subcomponent of that event, and therefore something we have no support for in CSL. As for the role, a session chair is really a specific kind of event "organizer." But if APA requires session chair, that suggests maybe a dedicated role for that, which as you all I know, I hate to have to do (given the potential can-of-worms that opens up). E.g. I think this would take some more thought and discussion on the CSL end. |
OK, so there are three strategies here:
Instead of going through this every single time, I'd like some rules on how you think we should decide between these three in general. Having an individualized discussion every time it comes up is simply not sustainable. |
I think in general you balance 1 and 2, and recognize on some things So I don't think there can be black-and-white rules. But when I consider these individual cases, I always ask "can we imagine a In this case I lean towards 2 because I can imagine some cases where And of course you look at the definitions in the spec. A conference session On 3, I think you reject as "cannot fix" if fixing would require redesign Finally, am not sure what's the easiest way to manage this. But I could On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Sebastian Karcher <notifications@github.com
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I brought up the issue and cite sessions like this frequently in my work in APA-style journals. Bruce, I don't think your characterization of "Chair" as a kind of organizer is very accurate. As conceived by APA, the "Chair" of a conference presentation is an individual coordinating several papers, speakers, or panelists in a multi-author session. It is analogous to the editor of an edited book or special issue of a journal, not to the individual identifying venues for the event. I don't think adding such a field is setting an inappropriate precedent. As a (probably less palatable) alternative, could CSL be modified to allow alternate forms of terms so that, when there are somewhat niche requirements by a style (French styles' "directeur de la publication" comes to mind), they can be specified without having to add additional creator types to CSL. I also am not sure I agree with your opposition to "containter-title" as a conceptual match for the Session Title. At conferences in psychology and management, papers are typically organized into sessions of 3-4 papers on a specific topic. The conference program is organized (and referenced) around the session titles, not the titles of the individual conference presentations. The session is the container in which the conference presentation resides. If you look at the citation form, it very closely matches the form of a chapter in an edited book (where "chair" corresponds to editor and "sessionTitle" corresponds to "bookTitle"). If "container-title" is really wrong, then perhaps mapping "sessionTitle" to "section" would be more palatable if the desire is really to avoid creating new CSL fields? I don't think a variable like "sub-event" is really an appropriate hack. Sub-events sound more like something like Theme Tracks at conferences (several sessions [with multiple papers each] on a particular topic) or Topic series at conferences (e.g. the now-defunct Security Conference used to have "Personnel", "Hardware", and "Software" topic areas into which all of the sessions were organized). At APA-style conferences, symposia in theme track would have both a "session title" and a "sub-event". I am not aware of any styles requesting this information in references, but, just like special issue titles in journals, it is conceivable that such a requirement could appear in the future. |
I doubt this is your intention, but you're sounding a little pedantic here. And I'm ONLY talking about this from the CSL angle, which necessarily tends I have no objection at all to adding "session chair" and "session title" But I do wonder, to go back to your point on my characterization of the The question I was focusing on is where to map that data on output. By the The notion of "containers" and "collections" refers to documents broadly A conference is, like a music performance, or a congressional hearing, an This is why I was suggesting we think of a session as a sub event (the My point here is not to say I have an easy answer; it's to say there isn't It may be you all want to redefine those core concepts in CSL. But I'm just |
My apologies. It was not my intention to be pedantic. I was simply trying to explain exactly what the term "chair" meant in this context. The major European conference in my field uses "chair" to refer specifically to individuals involved in organizing special programs or the conference as whole (they use "session leader" for the other definition), so I wanted to be sure that we were using a common understanding. I know that most of the Zotero/CSL developers are academics; that's the big reason why the projects are so useful. As to the "organizer" question, I was more concerned about the worry of a slippery slope for adding creator roles for "organizers" more broadly. Occasionally, I am aware of sessions that have been heavily organized by one individual with someone else serving as the "chair". For example, at SIOP (APA Division 14) conference two years ago, a debate occurred between two authors on opposite sides of an issue. The debate was organized by one researcher, who arranged for a different person to moderate the discussion. In the program, this session was listed with the moderator as "chair", as that is standard for debates of this type, even though the session was organized and submitted by someone else. In citations to this debate, the organizer is not listed per APA 6th edition style, but it seems conceivable that such a requirement could be introduced in the future. The other place where I can see organizer and chair as separate are in things like special programs and theme tracks at conferences. For example, a paper at the SIOP 2011 conference was: Mirvis, P. (2011, April). Turning business leaders into global citizens, in Dubois, C. (Chair), Leading and engaging employees in sustainable organizations. Symposium conducted in Managing HR for Environmental Sustainability (Chairs: D. S. Ones & S. Dilchert), theme track at the annual conference of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology, Chicago, IL, US. Per APA 6th edition, the theme track information is not referenced, but APA also does not reference things like Special Issue titles or editors. In this reference, the chair of the session (Dubois) is a different person and very distinct role (essentially editor) from the chairs of the theme track program (Ones and Dilchert), who are really "organizers" in the purest sense of that word. If there is value in keeping "documents" and "events" with completely distinct fields, then it is perfectly to do so. In that case, the ability to delimit presentations within events in parallel ways to published papers are needed (Sessions and Sections/Programs/Tracks for presentations within events just like Issues, Volumes, and Sections within a Book/Journal). As a somewhat related idea, some conferences with titles are similar in nature to books within a series. The conferences have a title and theme and are only connected to other conferences in the series in their format, similar to how books in a book series may be only loosely connected to other books in the series. As examples: |
I'll take a look at details when I get a chance (it's a long message ;-)), I would just note for example that hearings are another specific case that |
Actually, to pull out one suggestion, something like the below is indeed a
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@bdarcus Do you think The current version of apa.csl uses If we don’t want to use In considered shorter labels like |
We should resolve this now. But to pull back, some propositions:
Is that all correct? So how can we best deal with all this in a unified way, while accommodating the specific case? One step might be to add "organizer" and "chair"? Titles? |
For conferences, we need a way to distinguish three titles, and potentially associate contributors with each of these levels:
Right? So:
Maybe we can just change the documentation to make clear that one can use |
tl;dr: I suggest we add A few points:
Creator roles
Event level titlesI can see four levels of information
The question is whether we need new variables for (2) and (3) above or if we can just update documentation for For the question of what level is |
So, as a sidenote, you also see the need for a revised datamodel? (as outlined |
Gone through most of the issues in zotero-bits. Just a few that still need some thinking there. Still need to process schema, documentation, and csl-evolution Closes citation-style-language#157 actor Closes citation-style-language#179 part and part-title Closes citation-style-language#163 available-date Closes citation-style-language#114 contributor Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#43 compiler Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#27 archive_collection Addresses citation-style-language/csl-evolution#22 archive_collection Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#60 chair and organizer Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#44 supplement Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#32 division
Gone through most of the issues in zotero-bits. Just a few that still need some thinking there. Still need to process schema, documentation, and csl-evolution Closes #157 actor Closes #179 part and part-title Closes #163 available-date Closes #114 contributor Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#43 compiler Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#27 archive_collection Addresses citation-style-language/csl-evolution#22 archive_collection Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#60 chair and organizer Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#44 supplement Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#32 division
Add available-date date variables. Add chair, compiler, contributor, executive-producer, organizer, producer, performer name variables. Add archive_collection, division, part-title string variables. Closes #157, #179, #163, #114 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#43 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#27 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#60 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#44 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#32 Addresses citation-style-language/csl-evolution#22
Add available-date date variable. Add chair, compiler, contributor, executive-producer, organizer, producer, performer name variables. Add archive_collection, division, part-title string variables. Finally, pretty-prints csl-data.json using prettier. Closes #157, #179, #163, #114 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#43 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#27 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#60 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#44 Addresses zotero/zotero-bits#32 Addresses citation-style-language/csl-evolution#22
So, summary for Zotero:
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So |
Yes, exactly. Also note I had a typo above. Organizer should be mapped to |
- Add `place`, `eventPlace`, and `publisher` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#6) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `journalArticle`, `newspaperArticle`, and `magazineArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#16) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `webpage` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#30) - Add `place` and `type` for `document` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#18) - Add `translator` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#64) - Add `sessionTitle` (`publication`) and `chair`/`organizer` to `presentation` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#60) - Rename "Rights" to "License" (but keep as `rights` to reduce migration trouble) (closes zotero/zotero-bits#63) - Add many creator types to item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#77) - Add `editor` creator type to `report` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#31) - Move `pages` to `numPages` in `report` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#38) - Add `number` to `manuscript` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#19) - Add `volume` and `issue` to `newspaperArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#17) - Add `isbn`, `issn`, `seriesNumber`, and `series` to `thesis` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#15) - Add `format` to `book` and `bookSection` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#14) - Add `migrations` mechanism (tentative)
- Add `place`, `eventPlace`, and `publisher` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#6) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `journalArticle`, `newspaperArticle`, and `magazineArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#16) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `webpage` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#30) - Add `place` and `type` for `document` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#18) - Add `translator` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#64) - Add `sessionTitle` (`publication`) and `chair`/`organizer` to `presentation` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#60) - Rename "Rights" to "License" (but keep as `rights` to reduce migration trouble) (closes zotero/zotero-bits#63) - Add many creator types to item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#77) - Add `editor` creator type to `report` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#31) - Move `pages` to `numPages` in `report` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#38) - Add `number` to `manuscript` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#19) - Add `volume` and `issue` to `newspaperArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#17) - Add `isbn`, `issn`, `seriesNumber`, and `series` to `thesis` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#15) - Add `format` to `book` and `bookSection` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#14) - Add `migrations` mechanism (tentative)
- Add `place`, `eventPlace`, and `publisher` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#6) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `journalArticle`, `newspaperArticle`, and `magazineArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#16) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `webpage` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#30) - Add `place` and `type` for `document` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#18) - Add `translator` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#64) - Add `sessionTitle` (`publication`) and `chair`/`organizer` to `presentation` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#60) - Rename "Rights" to "License" (but keep as `rights` to reduce migration trouble) (closes zotero/zotero-bits#63) - Add many creator types to item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#77) - Add `editor` creator type to `report` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#31) - Move `pages` to `numPages` in `report` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#38) - Add `number` to `manuscript` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#19) - Add `volume` and `issue` to `newspaperArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#17) - Add `isbn`, `issn`, `seriesNumber`, and `series` to `thesis` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#15) - Add `format` to `book` and `bookSection` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#14) - Add `migrations` mechanism (tentative)
- Add `place`, `eventPlace`, and `publisher` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#6) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `journalArticle`, `newspaperArticle`, and `magazineArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#16) - Add `publisher` and `place` to `webpage` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#30) - Add `place` and `type` for `document` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#18) - Add `translator` to more item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#64) - Add `sessionTitle` (`publication`) and `chair`/`organizer` to `presentation` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#60) - Rename "Rights" to "License" (but keep as `rights` to reduce migration trouble) (closes zotero/zotero-bits#63) - Add many creator types to item types (closes zotero/zotero-bits#77) - Add `editor` creator type to `report` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#31) - Move `pages` to `numPages` in `report` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#38) - Add `number` to `manuscript` (addresses zotero/zotero-bits#19) - Add `volume` and `issue` to `newspaperArticle` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#17) - Add `isbn`, `issn`, `seriesNumber`, and `series` to `thesis` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#15) - Add `format` to `book` and `bookSection` (closes zotero/zotero-bits#14) - Add `migrations` mechanism (tentative)
https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30294/additional-fields-needed-for-conference-paper/#Item_7
According to APA, papers presented as part of an organized panel or symposium should be cited as
Wiernik, B. M. (2013, April). Effects of respondent characteristics on organizational employee sustainability survey responses. In Dilchert, S. & Wiernik, B. M. (Chairs), Practical lessons in survey methods for measuring employee green behaviors. Symposium conducted at the annual conference of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology, Houston, Texas.
Getting this 100% right might be hard but I would suggest to
Edited to clarify Rintze's questions.
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