SSS

[ncoelho]

No description provided.

[Abstraktikus]

BIP84 -Papiersicherung Bitcoin Konten 15.pdf

Inspiration: The template i use to secure blue wallets for my friends

[Abstraktikus]

What about social securing through several wallets based on the model of Shamir's Secret? - Papers have lots of downsides.
Connect 5 friends --> secure. --> ask 3 for recovery --> reconstruct.

https://iancoleman.io/slip39/
https://iancoleman.io/shamir39/
https://iancoleman.io/shamir/

[Overtorment]

@Abstraktikus wow thats awesome!

As for SSS, Im not a fan. Like, giving away parts of your secret is just bad opsec: "Look at me, I got something to hide, probably significant amounts of money!".

But should be pretty easy to implement, for export screen for example. Maybe we should add it to a roadmap.
Or how do you think it should work, @Abstraktikus ?

[Abstraktikus]

Lol. Excellent response. I partially agree. Sorry. Long answer. Here’s the why:
Paper = an easy recovery for partners and survivors. Good for people with a safe (or brain). But to print a paper without WLAN, without word synchronization, without people putting their phrase into the clipboard or taking an additional photo for google drive... impossible. Hence, it always needs a companion app to check the offline status.
Shamir's Secret = The house can burn down, needs no password. People stop cutting the words and forget the sequence. Depending the distribution, no extortion is possible (unless you have children ;-) But most important: If someone manage to collect 2 of 3 parts, it will not help him to break the secret more easily. Here is why I partially agree. Thanks to Shamir’s secret you don’t give away a part of your secret. You only distribute trash. Therefore, I see not only a chance for SSS, but also to (encrypted) distribute an electronic backup to different devices or locations. Still bad opsec? Google Adi Shamir. He is the inventor of the RSA-Key. Google Shamir's Secret. If you are interested, I would try to come up with a flow. I hate to hear from gold bugs that bitcoin cannot be stored unconfiscatable ;-)
An export screen with x passphrases (https://iancoleman.io/slip39/) would be a great idea. But: Backup solutions from a single partner don't work for me (my biggest fear regarding your upcoming multi signature wallet. There must by a solution to reinstall the backup in bitcoin core or electrum.) Hence: A second SLIP39 implementation (in cooperation Iancoleman with your team) would be great as this would offer a unique selling point OS and platform agnostic web backup tool. On the other side, people procrastinate even to write down 24 words with no clue of the future price potential of bitcoin. To write down 5 x 24 words error free, you need to be a freak. Means this better needs a companion app, hence needs a barcode solution or OCR scanner, means, you must print it, means people start to use WLAN…. And this is exactly, why I love the potential that Shamir’s secret offers.
Please proof this security concept again, bevor you make a quick conclusion. It could offer a nice solution, not yet offered by any other wallet. Your Conclusion? In which manner should I keep thinking about a watch-only wallet import solution?
1.) SS Blue Wallet SSS-Solution
2.) SS Blue Wallet non SSS-Solution
3.) Companion app (all options).
4.) No thinking limits as long as easy and secure

[Abstraktikus]

Geheimnis 1.txt
Geheimnis 2.txt
Geheimnis 3.txt
Geheimnis 4.txt
Geheimnis 5.txt

[limpbrains]

I think Shamir secret share is awesome. We can start with simple case - create compatible solution with Trezor using https://github.com/ilap/slip39-js
Then, maybe, add ability to export any kind of wallet in this manner.

[Overtorment]

Currently digging into SSS.
Reading through https://blog.keys.casa/shamirs-secret-sharing-security-shortcomings/

[ncoelho]

I believe the drawback on sss compared to multisig is that sss is not verifiable, thus trust on the creator/software is necessary? Am I wrong?

…

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 20:49, Overtorment ***@***.***> wrote: Currently digging into SSS. Reading through https://blog.keys.casa/shamirs-secret-sharing-security-shortcomings/ — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#405 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJOLHK6WKZQRA7K2U5ISADRVUXFNANCNFSM4G5VVVFQ> .

[limpbrains]

I believe the drawback on sss compared to multisig is that sss is not verifiable

I'm not sure what you mean by verifiable, that by having one share you can't check the integrity of another? It is true

thus trust on the creator/software is necessary

Correct

But I'm not thinking of sss as a complete opposite thing to multisig. The usage is different.
Imagine you already have a wallet in BW with significant amount of money and you just need to backup it. You're already trusting BW. Now you can use 12 words, but it is much more secure to use 2 of 3 or 3 of 5 sss.

I agree that well-designed multisig workflow could be better than sss.

My initial plan to add sss to BW was to be able to reconstruct Entropy from sss trezor backup and create regular HD wallet. Unfortunately slip39 is not just about Entropy encoding. They also altered key derivation scheme. This means there is no way to convert bip39 wallet to slip39 :(

If we add ability to backup current BIP39 wallets using sss they will be not interoperable with Trezor sss and may lead to a lot of confusion.

I'm still thinking it will be a nice feature, I will try to do more research on it.

cc @prusnak

[prusnak]

This means there is no way to convert bip39 wallet to slip39 :(

That is a feature by design - if you convert BIP39 to SLIP39 and your coins are stolen - how do you know whether the old backup (BIP39) or the new setup (SLIP39) was compromised?

[Overtorment]

who else supports SLIP39 ? if we implement as-is, how much compatibility across the industry we will get?

[ncoelho]

Electrum supports recovery apparently spesmilo/electrum#5692

…

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Overtorment ***@***.***> wrote: who else supports SLIP39 ? if we implement as-is, how much compatibility across the industry we will get? — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#405 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJOLHJPTNJROGSWBFO4DHTRVZG5NANCNFSM4G5VVVFQ> .

[limpbrains]

Electrum supports recovery apparently

This is only to control Trezor with Electrum. Electrum itself doesn't support creating/restoring SLIP39 backups
spesmilo/electrum#5419

who else supports SLIP39 ? if we implement as-is, how much compatibility across the industry we will get?

I can't find any besides Trezor

It would be nice to be able to import Trezor SLIP39 wallet, but I can't find any working tools to implement it.

Theoretically it is possible to convert BIP39 to 59 words length SLIP39, but again no working tools and I doubt it would be useful in practice.

A few links:

• https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/93413/whats-the-relationship-between-slip39-and-bip39
• Add field for bip39 mnemonic iancoleman/slip39#1 (comment)
• BIP39 and SLIP39 generated wallets do not match BlockchainCommons/lethekit#38

Looks like it is too early. Perhaps in future somebody will create standard to backup BIP39 to sss, but it is not here yet.

[prusnak]

Perhaps in future somebody will create standard to backup BIP39 to sss, but it is not here yet.

I would strongly advocate against that for reason I posted above.

[mariodian]

Electrum itself doesn't support creating/restoring SLIP39 backups

It does support restoring SLIP39 backups but you need to have Trezor T (the majority of the process happens on the device).

[prusnak]

It does support restoring SLIP39 backups but you need to have Trezor T (the majority of the process happens on the device).

This is going to change and there will be a pull request adding pure-software (with no device) SLIP39 recovery to Electrum soon.

[limpbrains]

Trezor team made a PR to Electrum with slip39 implementation

spesmilo/electrum#6917

Probably we can port it to JS and use in BW

[Overtorment]

slip39 might have already been implemented under bitcoinjs, just look there.

slip39 recovery we can definitely do, no questions asked.

[prusnak]

It seems that SLIP39 was implemented in 6.1.0 release, so we can close this?

https://github.com/BlueWallet/BlueWallet/releases/tag/v6.1.0