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Bismuth needs some love #25046

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cake-pie opened this issue Aug 22, 2018 · 8 comments
Closed
5 tasks

Bismuth needs some love #25046

cake-pie opened this issue Aug 22, 2018 · 8 comments
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Crafting / Construction / Recipes Includes: Uncrafting / Disassembling Items / Item Actions / Item Qualities Items and how they work and interact stale Closed for lack of activity, but still valid. <Suggestion / Discussion> Talk it out before implementing

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@cake-pie
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cake-pie commented Aug 22, 2018

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

The item "bismuth" exists:

bismuth in /items/resources/metals.json
"A dense but brittle metal often used as an alternative to lead."

However, it currently does not (yet) serve any meaningful gameplay purpose:

  • it only appears in recipes as a 1-for-1 alternative for lead
  • there are few sources for it (e.g. disassembly of pro fishing rod and a couple of ammo types)

In contrast, gold and silver, which are also lead-substitutes e.g. in ammo_bullet in /requirements/materials.json, have a multitude of other sources and uses.

Describe the solution you'd like

Give bismuth more distinctive uses, and maybe add a few more ways to obtain it.
Medical uses might be a good place to start.

Describe alternatives you've considered
#24843 (comment) : Considered removing it / merging it into lead if it does not have any distinct recipe use other than as a lead substitute.


Possible sources

  • pink bismuth (pepto-bismol)
    • chemical extraction (youtube)
    • burning at sufficiently high temperature

Possible uses

Keeping a list to track various options for discussion; checking off when implemented / rejected.

Medical

Need people with a background in med / pharm / chem to look into these and their recipes.

  • anesthetic: implementation ongoing at Addition of a recipe for the Anesthesia kit #24567

  • This exists: "antiseptic powder" bfipowder -- "A powdered form of chemical disinfectant, this bismuth formic iodide cleans wounds quickly and painlessly."

    • need someone knowledgeable to look into adding a bismuth component to the recipe.
  • digestive tract issues

    • needs diseases implemented to justify having the cures.
      • diarrhea: dirty water, uncooked/unheated food
      • indigestion: caused by overeating, eating too quickly, eating high-fat foods, drinking too much alcohol or coffee
      • heartburn (gastroesophageal reflux disease / other gastrointestinal disorder) -- don't really seem suitable for in-game implementation
    • drugs:
      • Pink bismuth (Bismuth subsalicylate aka Pepto-Bismol) is an antacid ... used to treat diarrhea, indigestion, heartburn and nausea. (wikipedia)
      • "Milk of bismuth" (an aqueous solution of bismuth hydroxide and bismuth subcarbonate) was marketed as an alimentary cure-all in the early 20th century (wikipedia)
      • Bismuth carbonate (Bi2(CO3)3) is used to treat diarrhea and gastric ulcers. (source)
      • Bismuth Subcarbonate (BiO)2-C-O3 : Antacid, antidiarrheal, topical astringent (source)

Alloys / Metallurgical

Not sure if metallurgy should have a significant place in the game.
Of course, metallurgy -> new materials -> need to find uses for those too!

  • solder -- already exists, could look into making it craftable.

  • bismuth bronze is a suitable "simple" alloy if some basic metallurgy is allowed

  • specialty alloys ( 1, 2 ) unlikely that we're going into that level of detail

    • Bismanol, an alloy of bismuth and manganese, is a permanent magnet of high coercive force (a measure of magnetization) ... It was used in small motors. (source)

Pigments, cosmetics

I don't think so, unless someone can make a really compelling case.

Catalyst

Most likely too complex/detailed for inclusion in the game.

  • bismuth compounds are used as catalysts in the manufacturing process of synthetic fiber and rubber (source)
  • an electrocatalyst in the conversion of CO2 to CO (wikipedia)
@cainiaowu
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It was added in #4305 and without any further maintenance since then. We might as well drop it.

@cake-pie
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That was my inclination as well, but Kevin #24843 (comment) :

Bismuth is distinct chemically, and is potentially very useful in that role.

So I figured let's give it a chance, see if anyone has ideas for something useful to do with it.

@cainiaowu
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cainiaowu commented Aug 22, 2018

Just check the json, I dont think you can current get bismuth item at all, the only way get one spawned is in "npc_misc" itemgroup which I believe is made via some scripting.

Again, we dont need to bloat the json as they are already very bloated.

By the way, despite "fishing_rod_professional" recipe require "bismuth"/"lead", it is considered made of only "plastic". So yeah.

@AndrewMcKinney
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As far as I can tell its uses are:

  1. Catalysts for rubber and some other synthetic materials
  2. Alloys with low melting points
  3. Makes fairly powerful magnets
  4. replacement for lead

Sources:
https://www.livescience.com/39451-bismuth.html
www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/83/bismuth

@kevingranade
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As it turns out, #24567 uses it.

Generally, "bloat" is not a reason to remove anything.

@cake-pie
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Added catalog of possible sources / applications to OP based on what I found + input from @bananaedmonkey

Set some up options as tasks (with checkboxes) as they seem reasonable/viable for inclusion.
Ruled out other possibilities as they seem out of scope for the game.

Need input/discussion esp. from folks with relevant background (med/chem/pharm , metallurgy).
(My knowledge about these = what I can find on the internet.)

@Night-Pryanik Night-Pryanik added <Suggestion / Discussion> Talk it out before implementing Crafting / Construction / Recipes Includes: Uncrafting / Disassembling Items / Item Actions / Item Qualities Items and how they work and interact labels Aug 23, 2018
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stale bot commented Aug 17, 2019

This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions. Please do not 'bump' or comment on this issue unless you are actively working on it. Stale issues, and stale issues that are closed are still considered.

@stale stale bot added the stale Closed for lack of activity, but still valid. label Aug 17, 2019
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stale bot commented Sep 16, 2019

This issue has been automatically closed due to lack of activity. This does not mean that we do not value the issue. Feel free to request that it be re-opened if you are going to actively work on it

@stale stale bot closed this as completed Sep 16, 2019
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Crafting / Construction / Recipes Includes: Uncrafting / Disassembling Items / Item Actions / Item Qualities Items and how they work and interact stale Closed for lack of activity, but still valid. <Suggestion / Discussion> Talk it out before implementing
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