Extensive Talent review (+fantasy talents) #9625
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And now a list of talent ideas to fill the gap I spent entirely too much time on: CaptainTrue Grit (Gunslinger T1) Desperado (Gunslinger T4) Team builder (Skipper T2) Corsair (skipper T4) Second in command (Shipmaster T1) Not today(Shipmaster T4) SecurityDynamite fishing (Specialist T4) Big game hunter (Warden T4) Basic training (Soldier T1) Pocket Artillery (Soldier T4) Medical DoctorDeadly Consultation (Xenologist T1) Call of the Deep (Xenologist T4) Botanist (Medic T1) Throat medicine (Medic T4) Dissector (Scientist T4) EngineerBrilliance (Weapons Engineer T1) Inert Carbon God(Weapons Engineer T4) Electro-Tactician(Electrician T4) Alchemist(Physicist T1) The Final Meltdown (Physicist T4) MechanicMachine Learning (Machinist T1) Pit stop (Machinist T4) Shaken, not stirred (Technican T2) Gears of war (Technician T4) Piecemaker(Pioneer T1) Savage Salvage (Pioneer T4) AssistantBrain-eating Amoeba (Jack of all trades T2) Apprenticeship (Jack of all trades T4) Brain chip protocol (Grayshirt T4) Trippy (Clown T1) Honky Bonk (Clown T4) |
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Since the talent rework is underway I figured out, might as well post this. Most of the talents have been rebalanced according to the above post, some custom talents have been added. |
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Here I'll talk about every single talent
Captain
Overall, the captain talents are a money/xp printing machine, first and foremost. The talents aren't overly powerful in terms of raw stats.
There is an obvious unbalance for anyone that played Captain:
Tree picks: Gunslinger vs Skipper vs Shipmaster
Skipper gets you medals. Medals get you and your crew experience. You ALWAYS go skipper first. The faster you go skipper, the faster you'll snowball through every other talent.
Gunslinger:
-Once Upon a Time on Europa is decent, opens the way to 100 weapon skill. Extra reputation gain is not noticeable since the game essentially gives too much reputation in general
-Quickdraw is a good concept but the numbers are bad. Reduce the delay to 3 seconds and increase the damage to 50%
-Tumble: it's better than Quickdraw, but no one really likes ragdolling, and the duration is too short. Increase the duration
-Drunken Sailor is decent, you just have to bear being drunk.
-Sailor with No Name: Good talent. Removing Reaper's Tax is good and cigars are fun for RP too
-Bounty Hunter is a good T4 but suffers from the competion of the Skipper tree which considerably increases rewards by adding a 3rd mission.
Skipper
-Evasive Maneuvers: The 75 helm is overkill since you have 40 to 50 helm by default, so you're well over 100. Mission reward is nice. Change the effect to either give 50 Helm to the entire crew instead
-Traveling Tradesman is bugged and doesn't apply sales. It's a good talent otherwise
-Trusted Captain is where problems start. Medals giving XP to both the target and the captain makes rushing this talent the n°1 priority for captains. You can even buy medals from shops sometimes which lets you level even faster. Remove the XP gain for the captain and replace it by a secondary effect (skill gain, temporary buff for the duration of the mission...)
-Down with the Ship isn't good by itself. Repairing a flooded sub is generally a downtime activity; you want repairs to be fast while the sub is sinking (7%+ water), not when it reaches as much as 50%+ water. It is even worse when the other option gives medals. You are actively losing XP by picking this This is needs a massive buff to be worth taking. Apply the buff when inside any flooded room with >80% water level, increase repair speed, reduce duration
-Trucker is decent money, but doubles down on medal xp. Even if you don't have missions, completing a beacon gives you up to 3 medals. Only award a medal when 2 or more missions are completed
-Esteemed Captain gives even more medals/XP. Reduce xp gain, reduce sub upgrade costs by 10%?
Shipmaster
-Commander is good for a T1
-Maintenance Routine is decent, but not essential
-Trust Building is probably better than the alternative.
-Camaraderie suffers from the alternative being much better. 5 job requirement makes it unreliable on small subs and pub servers as well as not dying. You already get plenty of money and XP with skipper. Give 4% extra money/xp per different job on the sub instead of a flat 20% +200mk to each individual crew member
-Inspire to Battle is good, stun resistance is extremely valuable.
-All Hands on Deck is good.
Recap:
Some gunslinger buffs to not make pistols a second-rate weapon, medals needs the nerfbat to prevent XP snowball, shipmaster talents are balanced.
Security
Security gains some pretty massive stats from its talents, but overall they are pretty well made and offer a real choice
Tree picks: Specialist vs Warden vs Soldier
It's not an easy choice, which is good! All 3 trees offer something unique and strong at almost every tier. You probably won't pick T1 specialist perks without going deep in the tree. Bootcamp feels like an always must-pick for a 1st perk though since it gives XP.
Specialist
-First Aid Training is lacking compared to the raw stats of the alternative. Slightly better healing can be unnoticeable. Add some bleeding resistance as well?
-Physical Conditioning increases your melee DPS by 25%, However you'll not notice 40% oxygen low resistance. Increase oxygen low resistance to 200%?
-Navy Diver gives you damage reduction and that is the most important stat in the game, AND it gives you a cool diving suit on top of that. Consider the alternative...
-Scavenger doesn't cut it, since you're not getting damage reduction. The loot is on average mediocre. Don't pick this over the alternative. Increase quality of looted objects? Increase damage dealt when inside wrecks/caves?
-Buccaneer is strong. Boarding axe is powerful, stun resistance is extremely good.
-Deep Sea Slayer is also good. It will drop A LOT of alien materials against anything that leaves an inventory behind (leucocytes) so it might be a little too good at that. Make alien materials rarer (10%), increase regular drops (alien blood...) instead?
-Dual Spec-Ops: the dodge effect is nice, but the two free talent point means this is essentially an extra free talent which feels weird. Give something else instead of 2 free talents?
Warden
-Enforcer is strong. +25% health is huge
-Beat Cop is a funny, RP talent with no practical use in dry environments. It pairs well with Dual Spec Ops as you can stunlock the weaker enemies. Not sure how to make it more reliable outside of water, and for what purpose
-Munitions Expertise is way too good for a T2, and generally better than Beat Cop. You get free ammunition which spares you precious resources, and you also get powerful explosive ammo recipe. Move this to T3
-By the Book is an excellent concept, but comes too late at T3 and doesn't give any stats, unlike its alternative. Move this to T2
-Stonewall gives damage resistance, the most important stat. It is so much better than By the book. Swap Munitions expertise and By the Book
-Implacable is strong and autoshotgun is fun.
Soldier
-Bootcamp gives +35% XP making it the must-pick for all T1s, and like all other XP talents snowballs throughout the campaign. Gain +10%xp and +1 to all skills instead?
-Gunsmith is good. Bandolier is strong and so is extra weapon quality.
-Warrior Poet gives you immense amounts of cash, and apparently it is getting canned. Money isn't necessarily limiting in a campaign so Gunsmith still feels better
-Expert Commando is a little akward to use and not many people know it works underwater. Less shotgun spread is appreciable but other weapos don't have much spread. It needs some love
-Tandem Fire passively increase the DPS of two of your sub guns. You conserve ammunition and kill enemies faster; this is much more important than Expert Commando
-Warlord: Assault rifle is great but you will not notice the 5% crit chance.
Recap:
Overall pretty good. Some minor changes and a few not-so-great talents
Medical doctor
The medic has at the same time both some of the strongest, game changing talents, and talent trees you will not notice at all.
Tree picks: Xenologist vs Medic vs Scientist
Medic is useful, all the time, and is the gateway to every other talents with endocrine booster and therefore feels like a must-pick for the first tree. Xenologist gives insane amounts of rewards... but you also can play an entire campaign without ever doing ruins. Same goes for Scientist, which is on the weaker side, as you can completely avoid the Genetic system.
Xenologist
-Researcher's Intuition is, like most Xenologist talents, completely useless early game as Ruins only start spawning naturally from biome 3 onwards. The 50% increased rewards however, are pretty extreme and need a nerf. See below for why
-Curiosity XP gain is nice, but once again only works starting on 3rd biome... Give xp for interacting with alien items in general (example: deconstructing Alien Blood, hatching eggs...)
-Double Duty gives damage reduction, the most important stat.
-Alien Hoarder is not good. Extremely niche, requires you to carry up to 5 artifacts (you want to deconstruct them asap), and boosts a weapon which ammunition can't be refilled... Unlock Alien Power Cell refill recipe using Fulgurium + Increase damage for melee too, reduce the amount of artifacts needed
-Reverse Engineer double dips on alien resources, giving you insane amounts of alien materials and free skills. Again needs to not just interact with ruins items. Remove double output, allow combining 5x Alien Blood into Unidentified Genetic Material ala Scrap Savant?
-Atmos Machine triple dips on alien resources. ARTIFACTS CAN DECONSTRUCT INTO ARTIFACTS, into even more resources. Most importantly, it's a boring T4 on a boring talent tree. Give it a fun effect, like a 10000 range discharge coil, or repairs ALL electronics after deconstructing an artifact
Medic
-Field Medic is good because extra health
-Fireman's Carry is very fun, very useful.
-Mechanics Course is also very useful since headset is a free slot
-Bedside Manner is nice as medicine is constantly applied on the entire crew... but unless you're using books it isn't obvious how skill gain works.
-Combat Medic is the stronger pick as it gives you stats, and combat stimulant being very one of the most powerful medicines in the game.
-Don't Die on Me! gives Endocrine booster... which is a must-have and makes picking the Medic tree a priority as you can accumulate talents as fast as possible. 1 Endocrine booster is essentially 1 level! On the fence about Endocrine boosters. They're really fun but also too powerful... Limit to 1 booster per character, or 1 talent per class?
Scientist
-Dr. Submarine is weak. It saves you a tiny bit of meds (on yourself) and some meaningless opiate resistance... Gain Hyperactivity from applying meds?
-Gene Therapist also saves you meds, but better by making meds stronger in general, it is the better talent.
-Research and Development is good thanks to the XP.
-Research Grant is also good, gives some spare cash and pressure stabilizer allows using powerful body armour outside the sub... but it is also very expensive and doesn't last long. Reduce recipe cost to 1x Oxygenite, increase yield? 100 seconds is very short for EVA
-Gene Harvester is a great concept, and makes genes available anywhere at any time.
-Genetic Stability is good for minmaxing genes; but relies on finding genes via conventional methods unlike harvester. Increase Genetic material drop chance from Thalamus organs?
-Advanced Splicing is mostly only worth it for the Double gene splicer. The XP gain is not noticeable for a T4, and the extra medical skill most has minor benefits. Add some Husk/Paralysis/Poison resistance? Anything?
Recap:
Xenologist and Scientist trees rely on aspects of the game (ruins, genes) you can completely ignore in a playthrough. Xenologist gives way too many resources, triple-dips the loot tables. Endocrine boosters are absurdly good. Genes need to be more accessible in general for Scientist to work.
Engineer
Engineer talents are overall pretty powerful, sometimes for the wrong reasons, while others are useless.
Tree picks: Weapons Engineer vs Electrician vs Physicist
Electrician is never a priority pick. It's a QoL tree while the two others give you huge offensive/defensive recipes.
Weapons Engineer
-Military Applications gives you upgraded coilgun ammo as early as T1, on top of a substantial weapons bonus. It's a little too good for such an early investment. Move to Tier 2 (replaces Strengthened Alloys), reduce weapons bonus to 10
-Arms Dealer prints Magnesium and Steel on the fly from any mission, and gives you access to more powerful SMG ammo. Damage is very important, more so than repair speed. Only give resources after Beacon/Abandoned outpost/Cargo missions
-Strengthened Alloys is nice, but you won't pick repair speed over more SMG damage. The knife even does less bleeding. Move to T1, gain the Depleted fuel recipe (replaces Military Application, reduce mechanical bonus to 10
-Castle Doctrine isn't great. Dirty bombs are rarely used. Extra damage inside the sub is situational. Gain 80% explosive damage resistance inside the sub?
-Expanded Research is 600 free XP per mission, thanks to the huge amount of fuel rods given by Nuclear option (see below). Nerf fuel output, Deconstructing depleted fuel gives Lead?
-Nuclear Option essentially gives unlimited fuel rods / depleted fuel. You can even redock to a station without completing a mission to get triple output again. The rapid fissile accelerator is a fun weapon, but the triple fuel rod output, combined with the higher fuel rod quality, combined with Arms dealer means you are printing free ammo for BOTH RFA and SMG as well as experience, and trivializes fuel consumption. It's good enough without it. Remove the triple fuel rod output
Electrician
-Just a Scratch is weak. If you stay under 50% you have a death wish. Increase health cap to 80%
-Minor in Mechanics is QoL, but you won't notice it exists compared to, say, Depleted Coilgun ammunition.
-In the Flow is good, helps repairing the aftermath of overvolting or a sunken sub.
-Melodic Respite is also good.
-Electrochemist is strong, damage reduction is the most important stat, although monsters are mostly immuned to stun. Battery consumption in general never matters so extra battery quality is only a factor for stun batons. Increase battery power consumption
-Optimized Power-Flow doesn't matter, because turret power consumption is way too low in general to matter. You can rack up a ton of electrical points easily, but it only really results in fast repairs. Increase turret power consumption
-All-Seeing Eye makes all of your previous choices irrelevant, and in theory gives you 3 free talents but the entire tree is mediocre. Thermal goggles are nice though. Buff other talents to buff this, also needs a T4 alternative that is good enough
Physicist
-Remote Monitor is only good for the fuel rod quality. You never touch the reactor (it's always either auto or ARCs). Entirely relies on making manual reactor a thing
-Co-Author is nice, some xp, some skills for the whole crew.
-Hazardous Materials gives you some free alien materials, which is good, and the cool but mighty useless volatile fulgurium rod. Fuel is already a non-issue, the rod is hazardous for the crew, and can't even be used as a weapon (even in a depth charge). A reactor/fuel rework and rebalancing is required for volatile rods to have a purpose
-College Athletics gives MASSIVE stats and the extremely useful cargo scooter. So many stats rolled into one talent feels a little too good, and it's hard to pass up on the scooter... 15% max health bonus at most
-Polymath is in theory the better option if you never leave the sub, gets you more talents faster, but you don't have a scooter for the whole crew... This talent needs some love, but how?
-Ph.D in Nuclear Physics makes Crowbar melee build fun, repairing items to 140% is appreciated... but lets face it PUCS is overpowered. It has all the stats of the combat suit + Burn/Husk/Radiation near-immunity + Auto-injector for good measure. Nerf PUCS combat damage resistances (gunshot/bite/bleeding/trauma/lacerations)
Recap:
Cheap, powerful ammunition with unlimited fuel on one hand, one of the best utlity items and suit on the other, and in the middle a mediocre set of talents bound by external factors (reactors, power).
Mechanic
Mechanic talents, unlike the engineer, shine for the right reasons: the utility they bring cement the class as a support role.
Tree picks: Machinist vs Technician vs Pioneer
They're all good. Technician feels a little weaker because it doesn't have tinkering or the scrap economy. Pioneer is prefered due to xp gain from scrap.
Machinist
-Tinkerer is awesome. Tinkering is always useful.
-Mass Production is generally prefered to the alternative, because fabricators/deconstructors can be crowded. Not a game-changing talent but very nice QoL
-Quickfix is pretty good since the recipe change. XP, faster repairs and no skill checks.
-Hull Sealer: Fixfoams are actually very cheap and powerful; fixing the entire hull of a room instantly at the cost of some steel and sodium, and can even be automated via detonators. Recipe probably needs to be changed to be a little more expensive; use raw Graphite?
-Overclocking is nice, but it is no Fixfoam...
-Let It Drain has an interesting "power" effect, but most importantly it gives you portable... black holes. The pumps have a draining power of 1000 which is frankly insane (10x that of a small pump). They can even be automated via logic. Reduce pumping power to 300 and reduce battery power consumption by half so they are used as support pumps
Technician
-Aggressive Engineering: Powerful if you can reliably stunlock creatures with Dementonite tools.
-Safety First: Safety harness is pretty useful, especially on bots. It's generally more useful than Akimbo wrenches.
-Hull Fixer is great, helps everyone on the sub as you make better welding tools.
-Crisis Management is not good for the same reasons as Down with the Ship. When 5 players are repairing, one player repairing 75% faster is not noticeable. Apply the repair speed bonus to all nearby characters so the repairs are actually fast
-Pyromaniac gives damage resistance, which is great, and increases Laser guns or Steam canon damage.
-Artisan Smith is good.
Pioneer
-Scrounger is a good talent; gives free resources and XP, although too much as you can find reliably scrap in supply cabinets and smaller containers. Reduce scrap finding chance to 20%
-Demolitions Expert: Explosive quality is generally useless because it doesn't affect all types of explosive ammunition. It slightly increases the damage of loaded railgun shells, but explosives are generally impractical. Increase explosive damage/radius so it can work with explosive harpoons or explosive coilgun ammo
-Miner gives way too many extra materials from mining, when resource scarcity is already hardly a factor, on top of the extra scrap from other talents. Reduce double output chance to 20%
-Canned Heat is good. Free XP and better tanks is always useful.
-Elbow Grease is overpowered. You can easily get over 100 mechanical, up to 230 with talents alone which will give you 92+% health and melee damage, on top of the benefits of instantly repairing items. 20% Mechanical into health/damage at most
-Scrap Savant: Constructing alien materials on the fly is great, but it gives way too much scrap, and double dips on finding scrap in wrecks. It's not uncommon to leave a wreck with 20 scrap, which ensures a lot of XP and guaranteed materials of your choice. Reduce scrap finding chance to 20%
Recap:
Pioneer tends to give too many resources, but all trees are well-designed in general. Tinker is awesome.
Assistant
Assistant talents are a mixed bag. Some are fun and interesting, like clown talents, while the Jack skill tree is... boring?
Tree picks: Jack of All Trades vs Grayshirt vs Clown
Jack of all trades has the potential to snowball, generating XP and skill points for the entire crew. Clown has powerful talents, while Grayshirt is interesting but not as good.
Jack of all trades
-Apprenticeship is good as it gives health and free skill points passively, which is important for the entire tree
-Multitasker is also good but less effective on smaller crews.
-Stand and Deliver is great. Free skills
-Ace of All Trades is good and so is the alternative
-Rich in Knowledge is good and so is the alternative
-Olympian only works for faster repairs and faster driving. Extra medical and weapons do nothing. If you have 200 skill, allow crafting Masterwork quality?
Grayshirt
-Playing Catchup competes with stats, and is useless if you start the game as an assistant. Increase XP gain to 200%?
-Skedaddle: Stun resistance and speed are good.
-Crew Layabout is good if you idle/RP a lot and don't care about dying
-Survival Package: Ragdoll doesn't seem to work at all. The talent prints about 300mk of medical supplies per mission. Give medical items on respawn instead to match the theme of the tree
-Insurance Policy removes Reaper's Tax although it doesn't say it, allowing you to take risks and die in missions without penalty to health. It's a great money-maker too.
-Still Kicking is also great for taking risks
-Graduation Ceremony: The talent incentivizes you to reroll your character... but it also only gives more health to the assistant's current character, so which is it? You have to commit to 4 tiers of assistant that don't do anything to reroll into a character that actually matters. At least gain one extra level or 5000 extra XP when rerolling so you get free levels.
Clown so apparently the clown tree is going away from assistant
-Enroll Into Clown College gives damage resistance, the most important stat of all. Skill gain is minimal
-Inspiring Tunes is great for taking care of maintenance, but you can't go outside as a clown. Which is why...
-Water Prankster is what most players will pick. Underwater clown is absolutely unique AND powerful as you can equip body armor underwater, It is a staple of the tree and defines clown as a whole.
-Psycho Clown is very powerful and getting psychosis is as easy as injecting alien blood.
-Slapstick Expert is great, allows you to go limp before geting hit, reducing damage and stunning the attacker
-True Potential is completely broken. It reduces damage taken, which is on top of the reistance from clown college, on top of body armor, and singlehandedly saves HUGE amounts of medical supplies by healing for free. All of the damage suffered from repairs does not require bandages. You can heal faster than bleeding, you can heal everything up to 100%. Remove the extra damage resistance, limit the healing to a cap of 80% of max health so you still require medical items to heal the crew
Recap: Clowns are overpowered, Jack of all trades is pretty uninteresting, and Greyshirt has the most unique mechanics but its T4 doesn't make sense.
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