RA1 Gap technology fails to work when Shroud is disabled

[Chertograd]

What I mean is that if Shroud is turned off in the game settings (most of my friends like to play with it off because seeing the terrain is a huge thing if you don't remember the map), then units/buildings like the Gap Generator or the vehicle that does the same thing don't work at all. We tried and it basically did nothing.

Could this be fixed in any way so that the Allies don't lose 2 units when one game setting is turned off? :O

[phrohdoh]

It is possible but I imagine difficult as disabling shroud skips that logic entirely (no reason to waste computing if the players have opted-out).

This would also be a balance issue. The enemies would immediately know you have gap-gen tech, but the entire point is to hide the surrounding actors, not the gap-gen itself.

[deniz1a]

Gap generators behavior needs some adjusting. Now it just draws attention to where it's built unless you build them everywhere.

[obrakmann]

That has always been that way, even in the original game. It's Red Alert's very own version of the Streisand effect.

See also the discussion in #5168 and #5113.

[DanAE111]

I don't think they should be changed game wide at all, i like the classic effect. I do agree all it will be doing in a game with no fog of war is just drawing attention to something. Although im not really sure what could be done if anything should be done. i'm not a fan of giving the unit multiple uses depending on game type, RA was designed with shroud and personally i don't mind it at all.

^ IMO :P

[deniz1a]

Maybe change gap generator from shroud to fog of war?

[deniz1a]

OK disregard my previous comments, gap generators are broken now if shroud is turned off in lobby settings. Whether gap generator behaviour in general should be changed is another issue but this should be fixed.

[phrohdoh]

Well, the gap generator creates shroud. If you disable shroud then it only makes sense that no shroud is created (ever).

[cjshmyr]

I don't know if it even makes sense to have the option when it breaks two actors. It might seem weird, but I'd prefer if the map shroud was wiped at 00:00 and kept the shroud code running as usual.

[pchote]

I'd prefer if the map shroud was wiped at 00:00 and kept the shroud code running as usual.

I still think we should rework the gap generators to integrate better with the FoW, but this is an easy and uncontroversial fix for the shorter term. 👍

[Micr0Bit]

@ScottNZ : this makes the current france - faction useless (when shroud is turned off )
i agree with hamb that it makes no sense to have that option unless we fix the gap-problems

[deniz1a]

OK how about this: Gap generator generates Fog of War and not shroud. It hides buildings within its range and even if the enemy discovers these buildings, they disappear again under FOW when his units leave the area. This would basically produce the same function for gap gen but it would also be compatible with no shroud option. Also this way the gap gen wouldn't draw attention to itself. It would look as if there isn't anything there.

And if in lobby settings FOW is disabled, then gap gen paints empty terrain within its radius. So again, it looks like nothing is there unless enemy units have visual contact.

What do you think?

[pchote]

@deniz1a: that is basically the idea that i've been pushing for for months (e.g. 1, 2), so 👍 (but not the cloaking with FOW disabled).

[deniz1a]

OK. Then gap gen would be useless if FOW is disabled. But satellite and spy plane are already useless if both FOW and shroud are turned off.

How about removing these structures/units/powers depending on game settings?
If FOW is off: Remove gap gen, mobile gap gen
If FOW and shroud are off: Remove gap gen, mobile gap gen, satellite and spy plane