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[META] Tails-like functionality in Qubes #2024
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@mfc the whole point of tails is to be non-persistent how do you want to achieve this feature in Qubes OS? Where is the benefit for Qubes users over Whonix? What do you think about offering tails as disposable VM? |
I don't see any distinctive advantages gained by Tails in a Qubes VM in comparison to Qubes-Whonix. Anyhow. There is value in having Tails boot in a Qubes HVM. So I can more conveniently boot Tails sometimes to look around rather than involving a second computer. Convenience improves productivity. Similarly having a Tails template for Qubes with full integration of Qubes tools would also simplify other things. (Non-desktop related stuff, file copy etc.) Also for the sake of having diversity. Being made by a different developer community. Coming with different default applications. Perhaps convenient for previous users of Debian / Tails that now like to migrate to Qubes / Tails. My question:
jmercier reply:
Source, the comment section of the blog post: https://garlicgambit.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/how-to-run-tails-from-a-qubes-live-cd/ Let's go through the original argument.
As concluded above, Tails in a VM has no advantages over Whonix in a VM in this regard. Whether the host operating system is run from read-only media or not does not change anything about this.
a) Qubes Live plus Qubes-Whonix Otherwise please explain what and how Qubes-Whonix could possibly persist anything more than Tails? (*) Issues not possible to fix at either Whonix or Tails at the VM level, that are required to make Qubes Live comparable to Qubes-Whonix Live / Tails Live. |
I agree it is very unclear to me what the difference is between a theoretical Tails-workstation and current Whonix-workstation. Because of this, I think #1969 is misdirected since once there is an updated Qubes Live USB image it will have Whonix integrated in it... unless there are specific functionalities of Tails that are not captured in Whonix (please share if these exist!). and I agree that "Tails in Qubes" probably means (1) improving Qubes Live USB and (2) improving Whonix templates in Qubes. I'm going to change this ticket to be a meta-ticket tracking implementing "Tails-like functionality" in Qubes, since that would probably be more useful. |
Hi, As I see it, there are quite some differences between Whonix and Tails. So far, the direction seems to be, "Tails like functionality" which seems to mean, improving Whonix templates. Correct me if i'm wrong but I think the differences here are:
How to leverage Qubes:
There are probably more differences but I would have to use Whonix for that. |
As Patrick explained above, this is only part of the picture. There are two senses of "Tails-like functionality in Qubes":
"DispVMs for Tails" would only achieve 1, not 2. (And, arguably, the same or better could be achieved with Whonix VMs.) But if 2 is ever created, I propose the name TaiQuWhonDo: The Amnesiac Incognito Qubes Whonix Desktop operating system. (Just kidding.) |
TaiQuWhonDo I like the name ;-) |
Another forensics concern to track/address if we want to go down this road:
|
Closing this since we don't do meta issues anymore: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/issue-tracking/#projects If needed, we can make a project for this instead, but it probably doesn't need one for now. |
Just wanted to create a ticket for those interested to track Tails-like functionality in Qubes. This would include:
Are there additional functionalities in Tails not currently captured in these categories or the referenced tickets? Please share, or create tickets to track these differences.
mailing list thread that touches on the subject: https://secure-os.org/pipermail/desktops/2015-November/000015.html
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