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OctoPi 0.13 does not work with Pi Zero W #318

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mitsumaui opened this Issue Mar 4, 2017 · 42 comments

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mitsumaui commented Mar 4, 2017

When installing OctoPi 0.13 to SD card, no Wifi adapter is detected on the Pi Zero W. This is built in now, so expect an updated Raspbian image is required? Will test further with Raspbian.

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guysoft commented Mar 4, 2017

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mitsumaui Mar 5, 2017

Thanks for the response! I saw this in the Raspbian rel notes so assume it's mostly ready to go:

2017-03-02:

  • Updated kernel and firmware (final Pi Zero W support)

I've just installed octoprint on the latest Raspbian Lite image manually to see how it goes! Once you have this into nightlies - let me know (along with a brief instruction on how I can load to SD card for testing) and I can do some testing.

mitsumaui commented Mar 5, 2017

Thanks for the response! I saw this in the Raspbian rel notes so assume it's mostly ready to go:

2017-03-02:

  • Updated kernel and firmware (final Pi Zero W support)

I've just installed octoprint on the latest Raspbian Lite image manually to see how it goes! Once you have this into nightlies - let me know (along with a brief instruction on how I can load to SD card for testing) and I can do some testing.

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guysoft Mar 7, 2017

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Huh, they changed it. It said "initial" a few days ago.
Oh well, @foosel already got errors when trying the camera. And we are on the move for 0.14.0 RC, when we are ready.

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guysoft commented Mar 7, 2017

Huh, they changed it. It said "initial" a few days ago.
Oh well, @foosel already got errors when trying the camera. And we are on the move for 0.14.0 RC, when we are ready.

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foosel Mar 7, 2017

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Some more infos on the errors I encountered...

Utilizing actual bandwidth on the WiFi interface (as in, streaming from the webcam in the "Control" tab in OctoPrint and also directly via /webcam/ plus doing a simple speed test for downloading something via wget) I saw huge CPU consumption by kworker and irq in the output of top. And printing a tri spinner (lots of curves) and trying to watch the webcam resulted in endless stuttering thanks to the above mentioned processes eating up ~50% of all available CPU resources and the constant swapping between processes not leaving enough air to breathe for OctoPrint to feed data fast enough to the printer.

That was still against the "initial support" image, aka 2017-02-16 though. I did a manual rpi-update on that which pushed the kernel version to 4.9 and reduced the CPU load during WiFi usage to something around 25%. Still some stuttering but at least better.

I then installed the SnapStream plugin and used that configured for 4fps instead of the actual webcam stream. That brought the CPU usage down to 15% and the print went through.

Still... a decidedly "meh" experience so far. As a side note, I also tested against a Pi3 then out of curiousity: same behaviour but doesn't matter thanks to four cores being available.

tldr: Actually using the WiFi of the RPi Zero W to transfer data (= watching a webcam stream of a print) eats a lot of CPU and can severly impact achievable print quality.

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foosel commented Mar 7, 2017

Some more infos on the errors I encountered...

Utilizing actual bandwidth on the WiFi interface (as in, streaming from the webcam in the "Control" tab in OctoPrint and also directly via /webcam/ plus doing a simple speed test for downloading something via wget) I saw huge CPU consumption by kworker and irq in the output of top. And printing a tri spinner (lots of curves) and trying to watch the webcam resulted in endless stuttering thanks to the above mentioned processes eating up ~50% of all available CPU resources and the constant swapping between processes not leaving enough air to breathe for OctoPrint to feed data fast enough to the printer.

That was still against the "initial support" image, aka 2017-02-16 though. I did a manual rpi-update on that which pushed the kernel version to 4.9 and reduced the CPU load during WiFi usage to something around 25%. Still some stuttering but at least better.

I then installed the SnapStream plugin and used that configured for 4fps instead of the actual webcam stream. That brought the CPU usage down to 15% and the print went through.

Still... a decidedly "meh" experience so far. As a side note, I also tested against a Pi3 then out of curiousity: same behaviour but doesn't matter thanks to four cores being available.

tldr: Actually using the WiFi of the RPi Zero W to transfer data (= watching a webcam stream of a print) eats a lot of CPU and can severly impact achievable print quality.

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Some quick shots:

image

This is only one browser connected to http://octopi.local/webcam/stream.html. OctoPrint server isn't even running.

image

And this is a simple wget -O /dev/null http://somehost:someport/somelargefile.gcode executed on the Pi.

And look at that load average. Hilarious. As a reminder, we are not doing anything computational intensive here. Just pumping some data through the wifi interface.

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foosel commented Mar 7, 2017

Some quick shots:

image

This is only one browser connected to http://octopi.local/webcam/stream.html. OctoPrint server isn't even running.

image

And this is a simple wget -O /dev/null http://somehost:someport/somelargefile.gcode executed on the Pi.

And look at that load average. Hilarious. As a reminder, we are not doing anything computational intensive here. Just pumping some data through the wifi interface.

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nophead commented Mar 7, 2017

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@nophead I think I already mentioned that once, but I never had such issues with USB wifi dongles. This mmc stuff though...

Now testing one of my dongles with the RPi Zero W.

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foosel commented Mar 7, 2017

@nophead I think I already mentioned that once, but I never had such issues with USB wifi dongles. This mmc stuff though...

Now testing one of my dongles with the RPi Zero W.

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@nophead now I finally see what you mean with CPU load by haproxy ;)

image

That's a running print with the Control tab (and hence the webcam stream) open. USB dongle, internal NIC is disabled. Slight stuttering but only at the start. Couldn't let it run (appointment) so no idea how that would develop over time. Next to no lag though (same setup with internal nic had lots of lag).

image

That is only streaming from /webcam/, OctoPrint server is disabled. USB nic, internal one disabled.

image

And wget.

Needs more tests but current gut feeling based on observed print behaviour: USB WiFi dongle performs better than built in interface.

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foosel commented Mar 7, 2017

@nophead now I finally see what you mean with CPU load by haproxy ;)

image

That's a running print with the Control tab (and hence the webcam stream) open. USB dongle, internal NIC is disabled. Slight stuttering but only at the start. Couldn't let it run (appointment) so no idea how that would develop over time. Next to no lag though (same setup with internal nic had lots of lag).

image

That is only streaming from /webcam/, OctoPrint server is disabled. USB nic, internal one disabled.

image

And wget.

Needs more tests but current gut feeling based on observed print behaviour: USB WiFi dongle performs better than built in interface.

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guysoft Mar 11, 2017

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Next nightly would be with the latest base image

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guysoft commented Mar 11, 2017

Next nightly would be with the latest base image

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pposthoorn Mar 14, 2017

Newest build works for me with the new raspberry Pi zero W with Pi camera.

pposthoorn commented Mar 14, 2017

Newest build works for me with the new raspberry Pi zero W with Pi camera.

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calonmerc Mar 17, 2017

Any additional testing needed on this? I've got a Pi Zero W doing nothing (but no Pi cam, still in the mail).

calonmerc commented Mar 17, 2017

Any additional testing needed on this? I've got a Pi Zero W doing nothing (but no Pi cam, still in the mail).

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foosel Mar 17, 2017

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More testing is always good!

@guysoft i released OctoPrint 1.3.2 yesterday, so that is now ready for inclusion in 0.14 as well (and might have already made it into this night's nightly? Not sure if that is build against master, would make sense though)

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foosel commented Mar 17, 2017

More testing is always good!

@guysoft i released OctoPrint 1.3.2 yesterday, so that is now ready for inclusion in 0.14 as well (and might have already made it into this night's nightly? Not sure if that is build against master, would make sense though)

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guysoft commented Mar 17, 2017

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Ah, great. I wasn't sure anymore if the nightlies were master or devel branch. Release was 3pm CET/2pm UTC so that should have made it in :)

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foosel commented Mar 17, 2017

Ah, great. I wasn't sure anymore if the nightlies were master or devel branch. Release was 3pm CET/2pm UTC so that should have made it in :)

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robomaniac Mar 19, 2017

hey guys,

it's my first time use of the octopi. I am using a Zero W and downloaded this nightly build
2017-03-17_2017-03-02-octopi-jessie-lite-0.14.0.zip 2017-03-17 01:11:01 UTC

and change the wifi settings in the .txt file and boom got everything working! I did my first print too.
My camera was a black screen and did not undestand why until I went in the basement to check my printer and saw that the camera felt face down on the table! hahaha!!

thanks!
I just wanted to tell you that I got it working on the Zero W since I saw some people having difficulty.
I also tried the 0.13 until I came in this thread and tried the nightly build.

my questions are: When do I know octoprint release a stable version for the Zero W?
I can't find the release #
here? http://gnethomelinux.com/OctoPi/nightly/#rpi-stable
EDIT this is what I was looking for
https://github.com/foosel/OctoPrint/releases/

if I want to update my nightly once in a while, I need to use these scripts?
https://github.com/guysoft/OctoPi/tree/devel/src/nightly_build_scripts
basically I need to use github commands to find that folder and execute those script?

Thanks

robomaniac commented Mar 19, 2017

hey guys,

it's my first time use of the octopi. I am using a Zero W and downloaded this nightly build
2017-03-17_2017-03-02-octopi-jessie-lite-0.14.0.zip 2017-03-17 01:11:01 UTC

and change the wifi settings in the .txt file and boom got everything working! I did my first print too.
My camera was a black screen and did not undestand why until I went in the basement to check my printer and saw that the camera felt face down on the table! hahaha!!

thanks!
I just wanted to tell you that I got it working on the Zero W since I saw some people having difficulty.
I also tried the 0.13 until I came in this thread and tried the nightly build.

my questions are: When do I know octoprint release a stable version for the Zero W?
I can't find the release #
here? http://gnethomelinux.com/OctoPi/nightly/#rpi-stable
EDIT this is what I was looking for
https://github.com/foosel/OctoPrint/releases/

if I want to update my nightly once in a while, I need to use these scripts?
https://github.com/guysoft/OctoPi/tree/devel/src/nightly_build_scripts
basically I need to use github commands to find that folder and execute those script?

Thanks

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guysoft Mar 20, 2017

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@robomaniac Hey,
So

  1. Soon, and it would be mostly identical to the current nightly, so you can use that quite surely
  2. OctoPrint update itself automatically, you will get notified in the browser. don't confuse OctoPrint with OctoPi. Those scripts are used toto build the image itself
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guysoft commented Mar 20, 2017

@robomaniac Hey,
So

  1. Soon, and it would be mostly identical to the current nightly, so you can use that quite surely
  2. OctoPrint update itself automatically, you will get notified in the browser. don't confuse OctoPrint with OctoPi. Those scripts are used toto build the image itself
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crazyquark Mar 29, 2017

I confirm that debian jessie lite 2017-03-02 does run on pi zero w.

crazyquark commented Mar 29, 2017

I confirm that debian jessie lite 2017-03-02 does run on pi zero w.

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bolsoncerrado May 5, 2017

Hey @robomaniac so are you able to run octopi on the ZeroW, access remotely and watch the camera without much hassle? I don't need 60fps video feed, just quick checks to see steady temps and no spaguetti incidents should be enough ;)

wdy say? :)

bolsoncerrado commented May 5, 2017

Hey @robomaniac so are you able to run octopi on the ZeroW, access remotely and watch the camera without much hassle? I don't need 60fps video feed, just quick checks to see steady temps and no spaguetti incidents should be enough ;)

wdy say? :)

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robomaniac commented May 6, 2017

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bolsoncerrado commented May 7, 2017

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Closing, 0.14 released

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guysoft commented Jul 23, 2017

Closing, 0.14 released

@guysoft guysoft closed this Jul 23, 2017

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jalopezsuarez Jan 30, 2018

@foosel did you tried Pizero with USB dongle? Same performance problems ?

jalopezsuarez commented Jan 30, 2018

@foosel did you tried Pizero with USB dongle? Same performance problems ?

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@jalopezsuarez see this comment. TLDR: No. Dongles perform way better. Kinda defeats the purpose though, especially on something as IO limited as the 0w. Use a Pi3.

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foosel commented Feb 7, 2018

@jalopezsuarez see this comment. TLDR: No. Dongles perform way better. Kinda defeats the purpose though, especially on something as IO limited as the 0w. Use a Pi3.

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EpicLPer Feb 8, 2018

Uhm... Is this "solved" now since it's closed? Can you use the Zero W now with the latest 0.14 release?

EpicLPer commented Feb 8, 2018

Uhm... Is this "solved" now since it's closed? Can you use the Zero W now with the latest 0.14 release?

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Penfold81 commented Feb 8, 2018

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iaglet Mar 14, 2018

Is this still an issue? I have a Pi Zero W running OctoPrint without issue. It can be a little slow to boot but it works. Now I am worried cause I want to rebuild the darn thing.

iaglet commented Mar 14, 2018

Is this still an issue? I have a Pi Zero W running OctoPrint without issue. It can be a little slow to boot but it works. Now I am worried cause I want to rebuild the darn thing.

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guysoft Mar 14, 2018

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@iaglet the issue is closed

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guysoft commented Mar 14, 2018

@iaglet the issue is closed

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ettiennegous May 8, 2018

Can anyone confirm or disprove that Raspberry Pi Zero W is powerful enough if you run a Raspberry Pi Camera but not good enough if you run a USB web cam?

I see in this thread some responses where people say its fine and other complain.
Based on previous reading the Raspberry Pi Cam decoding is done right on the GPU vs USB cam will load up the CPU hence the huge performance hit some users are seeing.
Link below where a similar discussion happened.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=607023

ettiennegous commented May 8, 2018

Can anyone confirm or disprove that Raspberry Pi Zero W is powerful enough if you run a Raspberry Pi Camera but not good enough if you run a USB web cam?

I see in this thread some responses where people say its fine and other complain.
Based on previous reading the Raspberry Pi Cam decoding is done right on the GPU vs USB cam will load up the CPU hence the huge performance hit some users are seeing.
Link below where a similar discussion happened.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=607023

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foosel May 8, 2018

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The Wifi on the Zero W gobbles up CPU cycles for breakfast when bandwidth is utilized. Webcams utilize bandwidth. Don't use the Zero W for OctoPrint, especially if you plan on using a webcam with it.

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foosel commented May 8, 2018

The Wifi on the Zero W gobbles up CPU cycles for breakfast when bandwidth is utilized. Webcams utilize bandwidth. Don't use the Zero W for OctoPrint, especially if you plan on using a webcam with it.

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fornellas commented May 8, 2018

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I knew someone would chime in and say "It works perfectly for me!!1!". Be happy if it does. It certainly didn't in all tests that I did and I also got a lot of confirmation from other people in the community that it simply grinds to a halt. Anyone deciding on using that device, be my guest, but don't be surprised when you run into (predictable) performance issues left and right.

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foosel commented May 8, 2018

I knew someone would chime in and say "It works perfectly for me!!1!". Be happy if it does. It certainly didn't in all tests that I did and I also got a lot of confirmation from other people in the community that it simply grinds to a halt. Anyone deciding on using that device, be my guest, but don't be surprised when you run into (predictable) performance issues left and right.

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iaglet May 8, 2018

So some behavior is making sense. I haven't had any full fledged failures but some of the strange behaviors make more sense. While I can't say that it is related, it is horribly slow rebooting.

iaglet commented May 8, 2018

So some behavior is making sense. I haven't had any full fledged failures but some of the strange behaviors make more sense. While I can't say that it is related, it is horribly slow rebooting.

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fornellas commented May 9, 2018

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iLLiac4 May 22, 2018

In latest version booting is slow as hell (not usable). Using older version boots much faster with Zero W.

iLLiac4 commented May 22, 2018

In latest version booting is slow as hell (not usable). Using older version boots much faster with Zero W.

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guysoft May 22, 2018

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@iLLiac4 what version? Please open a seprate issue withthe full details

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guysoft commented May 22, 2018

@iLLiac4 what version? Please open a seprate issue withthe full details

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jalopezsuarez May 22, 2018

Not recommended install on PiZeroW, because of the performance. Anyway you should do a clean fresh install and try again. Please create a new post for details.

jalopezsuarez commented May 22, 2018

Not recommended install on PiZeroW, because of the performance. Anyway you should do a clean fresh install and try again. Please create a new post for details.

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iaglet May 25, 2018

Even though I have a PiZeroW running Octopi and had success with it, I am now realizing that I was still having performance issues and would recommend against it. I would not do that over again. It's too bad.. it's a very elegant form factor but all the issues being described, I observed.

iaglet commented May 25, 2018

Even though I have a PiZeroW running Octopi and had success with it, I am now realizing that I was still having performance issues and would recommend against it. I would not do that over again. It's too bad.. it's a very elegant form factor but all the issues being described, I observed.

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DarthKegRaider Jul 26, 2018

I too have been using my spare Pi0W (heatsinked) driving my Rostock Delta almost perfectly for approx 6 months. Mainly due to the tiny form factor, but will be migrating to the Pi3B, once I design a housing for it to replace one of the current side covers, thus integrating my pi into the printer.

I have only had one (1) serious lockup using the zero, as it stays online for months at a time. Rebooting is painfully slow though, taking approx 6 minutes before the webpage is available. You do notice the printer slow down and get 'jittery' if you upload files with the webcam running. That said, if they ever release a quad-core Zero, I think I'll put it back. I like the size!

DarthKegRaider commented Jul 26, 2018

I too have been using my spare Pi0W (heatsinked) driving my Rostock Delta almost perfectly for approx 6 months. Mainly due to the tiny form factor, but will be migrating to the Pi3B, once I design a housing for it to replace one of the current side covers, thus integrating my pi into the printer.

I have only had one (1) serious lockup using the zero, as it stays online for months at a time. Rebooting is painfully slow though, taking approx 6 minutes before the webpage is available. You do notice the printer slow down and get 'jittery' if you upload files with the webcam running. That said, if they ever release a quad-core Zero, I think I'll put it back. I like the size!

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mitsumaui Jul 27, 2018

Yes I have had some lag with Pi Zero too - it was better on older OctoPi releases, but recent ones seem to have slowed down further. @DarthKegRaider - If you are interested, Banana Pi do a 4-core 512Mb Pi Zero on the same footprint on Amazon? I'm tempted to try one of these!

mitsumaui commented Jul 27, 2018

Yes I have had some lag with Pi Zero too - it was better on older OctoPi releases, but recent ones seem to have slowed down further. @DarthKegRaider - If you are interested, Banana Pi do a 4-core 512Mb Pi Zero on the same footprint on Amazon? I'm tempted to try one of these!

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julcoh Aug 28, 2018

@mitsumaui Did you try the Banana Pi? Interested in getting a webcam working with this method as well.

julcoh commented Aug 28, 2018

@mitsumaui Did you try the Banana Pi? Interested in getting a webcam working with this method as well.

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Cova Aug 29, 2018

So reading through this whole thread - it sounds safe to assume that a zero-w running octoprint will be fine for me since I have no intention of connecting any kind of camera to it - just don't upload new gcode files (use significantly bandwidth) while a print is in progress.

Cova commented Aug 29, 2018

So reading through this whole thread - it sounds safe to assume that a zero-w running octoprint will be fine for me since I have no intention of connecting any kind of camera to it - just don't upload new gcode files (use significantly bandwidth) while a print is in progress.

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DarthKegRaider Aug 29, 2018

@Cova , Give it a go if you have one laying around. It might work fine for you, your SD card might be faster than mine :)

DarthKegRaider commented Aug 29, 2018

@Cova , Give it a go if you have one laying around. It might work fine for you, your SD card might be faster than mine :)

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