Landed titles for which I can't find a Latin/Greek/any other ancient analogue #69
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Qasr Ash-Shams: Ptolemy (121-151 A.D.), in his book “Geography”, mentions a town named Babylon which existed from Pharaonic times on part of a site of what is now included in Cairo. A canal ran through this town connecting the Nile with the Red Sea. Roman Emperor Trajan (98-117 A.D.) reopened this canal and also enlarged and equipped a fortress which was located at the southern end of the town. The fortress, known as the “Castle of Babylon”, or “Castle of Egypt” (Khemi), was further enlarged by Emperor Arcadius (395-408 A.D.). There was a fluvial port at this location where ships could anchor. In 335 A.D., the Roman Emperor altered shipping routes from Alexandria to the Babylon fortress. The area of Old Cairo was the first nucleus of present-day Cairo. It is not known exactly when this city became a bishopric but it must have been before the first half of the 5th century as a certain Cyrus, Bishop of Babylon, was present at the Council of Ephesus held in 449 A.D. At the time of the Arab conquest of Egypt, Babylon seemed to have been a large city extending northwards as far as Tendounias (‘Um Dunain’), the present district of al-Azbakiah, where there was a fortified outpost. The Arab general ‛Amr Ibn al-‘As captured this outpost and occupied the city as far as the Castle of Egypt, to which he laid siege. On April 9th, 641 A.D. this castle, which the Arabs named “Qasr ash-Sham’a (wax castle) surrendered. After the Arab conquest of Egypt, the name Babylon was more commonly used to denote the district immediately around the Castle of Egypt or Qasr ash-Shams. |
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Wadi Masus: supposed to be Abbasca on this map |
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Um Shashoba is a name of the golden mine, the most close town (which is said to be a religious center in Pharaonic times and cross of roads to Myos Hormos and Berenike in Ptolemaic and Eastern Roman times) is Qift (Arabic name)/Gebtu (Ancient Egyptian)/Koptos (Ancient Greek name)/Justinianopolis (Roman, what was needed). |
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Jabal Quzlum: supposed to be Thirdis on this map |
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Many thanks for your help, I will add these names to the mod. However, the Qasr ash-Shams you mentioned is a complete different place. I know about Babylon fortress and thought of using its name for Cairo, but later preferred Heliopolis (Coptic On). |
Marsa Matrouh is the ancient Koinē Greek: Παραιτόνιον Paraitónion, Latin Paraetonium. It was the westernmost city of the Ptolemaic Kingdom in the Hellenistic period. The city of Apis, some 18 km to the west of Paraetonium, marked the boundary to Libycus nome, and the Halfaya Pass (at Sallum) marked the boundary to Marmarica proper. Maybe something from this? "The city of Apis, 18 km to the west", e.g. |
Ok, I will add this as well. |
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IMO for the Balkans a good solution would to add places from "De Aedificiis" by Procopius. There are a lot of toponyms and the vast majority of them still haven't been identified, but unfortunately many names are clearly corrupt. |
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Jabal al-Gharbi should be Abbasca in stead of Wadi Masus, which in turn should be Herculis Tumuh; |
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@LT-Rascek isn't Paraetotium already presented? If not, then it's better, yes |
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@Freudensonne: I checked earlier and it wasn't represented. I just checked again and b_qasr_ash-shams is the only place on the latest code branch that is named Paraetonium/Paraitonion. |
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I'm seeing screenshots from old maps here, but @Symmachus are you using the the Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire? It is the most recent and complete initiative which gives tools to find places during the period. Old maps will rarely provide those references completely. |
I don't use the old maps - they were actually provided by @Freudensonne. Generally, I prefer to use Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World as my main source. I believe its have more data than the Digital Atlas + there are also lists of unlocated toponyms that can be used as the names for unidentified locations. Since many Western European cities in CK3 were apparently founded only during the Middle Ages, I use Orbis Latinus as the source for their Latin names (although those are frequently written in Vulgar or Medieval Latin). Its especially useful for Gaul and Italy, since the vast majority of the local placenames are of Latin origin. |
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I'm publishing the next list, this time for Roman Britain. This area so far is the hardest one, because the vast majority of the English toponyms are Germanic in origin + on their map of Britain PDX ommited many localities that existed during the Roman period. Because of these issues, I partially had to rely on pseudo names constructed by antiquarians centuries ago. Also, If there are no possible Roman settlements, plain etymological translation is also welcome. If you're into that, I can give you one tip from the antiquarians - they translated Anglo-Saxon tun/ton/town as Celtic "dunum". Anyway, here is the list: *Tonbridge *Tandbridge *"Woxbrigge" (modern Uxbridge) *Gore *Dunmow *Bedford *Ampthill *Luton *Berkhamsted *Kettering *Walsingham *Ipswich *Sudbury *Blything *Radfield *Papworth *Yarlestre (a hundred in Anglo-Saxon England) *Cottingham *Sheffield *Bolton *Ripon *Bolingsbroke *Grimsby *Bosworth *Rutland *Darlington *Furness *West Derby *Appleby *Macclesfield *Chesterfield *Coventry (the current name refers to neaby Lunt Roman fort, but that's a modern name) *Birmingham *Stafford *Wolverhampton *Evesham *Kidderminster *Ludlow *Hereford *Wigmore *Winchcombe *Banbury *Witney *Reading *Basingstoke *Carisbrooke *Winterstoke (a hundred in Anglo-Saxon England) |
I feel like you should go and see what names Winter King mod for CK2 uses, they have very, very detailed provinces with dynamic names for baronies etc., so that map could be of help if set to Roman names (e.g. everything given to Roman character) |
That could be done but it requires asking permission beforehand, we need to get that from then before we can use their research. |
I know about TBWK and have already researched its map. I used the TBWK data only if there was 100% match between the Roman settlement and its Anglo-Saxon successor (or at least if the distance was very short, like one or two kms). I'm saying that because much of the stuff they added was pretty inaccurate. For example, Ipswich in TBWK is called "Combretovium" under the Romans, but in fact this city was 12.8 km from it, which is quite a distance. |
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Next list - the North Africa. Unlike the previous two ones, I actually finished doing this part of the map, adding everything I could find. The most problematic part is Mauretania Tingitana, because there are very few named Roman-era settlements. It is worth to note a large number of titular Catholic sees in Africa Proconsularis, Byzacena, Numidia and Mauretania Caesariensis, the exact location of which had been lost to history. These cities can be used as gap-fillers if needed.
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Gaul (in fact, all of these have medieval Latin names, but etymologies are Germanic):
Upd: Per Loup's request I removed the cities that are located in Germanized areas in northern and eastern parts of the country. |
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For cities that were originally Frankish settlement the Early Medieval Latin equivalents make sense, there is simply no Roman counterpart. However when there is an alternative Roman settlement in territories under Sub-Roman control that name should be preferred over the Frankish/Germanic one. I believe that makes for a reasonable compromise. |
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Hispania:
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Italy (mostly Noricum, really):
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I will publish a list for it here and will update it later. Your help in finding the suitable Roman era names would be very appreciated. Here for start most of these titles from the Eastern Roman empire.
Ain al-Gharbi.
Gizeh (Only Coptic name).
Daqahla (Only Coptic name).
Iqna.
Zarnikh
Al Hamam.
Al-Harra.
Bawiti.
Bawit. (Yes, these two are distinct).
Al-Qasr Dakhla.
Farafra Oasis.
Dahab
Qalat al-Jundi.
Ramla. (Founded under Muslim rule, so I may just go with Lydda).
Tih.
-Judr. (Jayrud?. Then it is ancient Geroda)
Ar-Rikha.
As-Suwaida (Chasanara of the Byzantines, but that is just a corruption of its Arabic name Hisn ar-Ran).
Urd.
Siffin.
Makisin.
Ash-Shamsiya.
Everything in counties of Podrinje, Zlatibor and Rashka.
Zegligovo.
Macva
Debrc.
Krupanj.
Rudnik.
Plav.
Moraca.
Krusevac.
Koznik.
Vranje.
Glubocica.
Bosilegrad.
Breznik.
Kucevo.
Samundzhievo.
Cherven.
Sborishte. (Targovishte in Bulgaria)
Janitsa.
Krichim.
Lyutitsa.
Smolyan.
Ustra.
Byalgrad.
Sivista.
Vella.
Vrestenitsa
Andravida.
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