Step Playback in MuseScore

[julianluisort]

Your idea

Using just the MuseScore notation software, my goal is to simply keep the note being played continuously sounding while I keep the computer > key pressed (step function), and not automatically jumping to the next note. BTW, that is the logical way a musical instrument works in real life (e.g., a standard organ).

Problem to be solved

The faulty present step function is not really useful. This improved playback step functionality would make MuseScore more REALISTIC and practical, while dramatically enabling the use of it for music playing and learning, also helping new electronic musical devices applications and MIDI interface.

Prior art

No

Additional context

There is a humanitarian project being developed to help disabled and children using this proposed new functionality.
Thank you.
Julian. julianort@gmail.com

[cbjeukendrup]

The main function of arrow keys of the keyboard is navigating between notes. It's similar to moving the text cursor when typing text in a text program. If you hold the key pressed, then its function will be performed multiple times. The fact that notes are played back when you navigate to them, can in fact be considered a collateral event.

BTW, that is the logical way a musical instrument works in real life (e.g., a standard organ).

The comparison with musical instruments seems not entirely applicable here, since the arrow keys invoke navigation commands and are not designed to have any similarity with keys (or whatever) of a musical instrument.

So what you are requesting seems to be entirely unrelated to the existing (navigation) functionality, but instead you are requesting a completely new playback mode, where the score is not played back "in real time", but where you need to press and release a key to advance the playback. Is that right?

It would be good if you could elaborate on:

• what a concrete use case for such functionality would be
• how this should work in situations with multiple staves with non-matching rhythms.

[cbjeukendrup]

For others reading this: Jeetee pointed me at https://musescore.org/en/node/328939 which contains some context that makes this issue easier to understand.

[julianluisort]

Thank you, Casper

I do understand what you say and also what you mean, but we may be jumping in a ‘semantics’ issue here. In simple words, I believe it does not matter what we call it: Step, or whatever… It is not capriciously that I call it Step; other musical software I purchased internationally call it Step Playback, while they perform the same functionality as Musi Score’s “>” (see attached step.jpg, please). How should I call the “>” function in MuseScore then, please, to avoid confusions?

A concrete use case for such functionality (let us call it Step Playback for my project) would dramatically open new doors and markets for music playing and learning with MuseScore MIDI tools for all people, including children and disabled persons, as Yamaha agreed. Instead of investing years of learning, practicing, etc. (and also money), the student can now play any MIDI Instrument music in MuseScore from day one, avoiding discouragement and frustration associated to traditional ways of approaching musical playing and learning. For example, using simple scores such as Hal Leonard’s or many others in the market for the melody (I have developed a simple quarter note converter and simple scores for my personal use which I can share), and Karaoke for the accompaniment, anyone can now play music right away without extensive training and at his own pace and rhythm. Eventually, in the next step of the Step Playback development, this should work well with multiple staves with non-matching rhythms. Testing with the first step is of the essence.

The basic (although not identical to mine) idea started with Leon Theremin, who patented his device in 1928 and is still sold worldwide. Moog also uses this idea on its products, as well as Casio and other instrument makers. I have developed an instrument (MusicalisVox) which works quite well with MuseScore and special sensors but lacks the functionality I mention (it needs Step Playback for full functionality). See attached video, played with it by me (a layperson in music) and the Step function of a different commercial software. Nevertheless, a straightforward way to play with MuseScore soft would also be via the computer keyboard and Step Playback. I successfully presented my prototype at NAMM Tennessee and Anaheim, U.S.A., and also won the award for best innovation project in Colombia (SENA University), year 2023. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTHplwV1-Go&ab_channel=Juli%C3%A1nL.Ortuondo

Although I understand now that the MuseScore ">" functionality was not intended for Step Playback, and taking advantage of the fact that notes are played back when you navigate to them as a collateral event, I would suggest that -without a huge revamp- a simple added tab reading “ > / Step Playback “ (toggled) could make the trick. This new functionality would simply use the existing “>” function with a modification: The playing note should keep playing as long as the “>” key keeps being pressed. Releasing it and pressing it again with a new note would restart the cycle, just like an organ keyboard. No major changes are needed to the existing software, as I see it. One step forward for this Step Playback functionality would be using the mouse (index and middle fingers alternatively advancing one note with Step Playback ) to navigate the score notes forward comfortably, instead of using the “>” on the computer keyboard. The rotating wheel could navigate the notes forward and backward and the movement of the mouse would still work as a standard one.

My goal (and dream) is to take music learning and playing to all the people, and all over the world, especially to the many millions who otherwise give up for the reasons I mentioned above. Please check the thread: https://musescore.org/en/comment/1230491#comment-1230491 to follow the ‘history’ of my request.

Thank you for your time and consideration, Casper

Julian

[julianluisort]

I wonder if my feature request is still being considered as a new feature and, in any case, if there is a way to pay for this work and have it done for my personal and friends’ use, otherwise. It could be something like a patch or so. Thank you.

[cbjeukendrup]

It will definitely be considered at some point, but there is no estimation yet when that may happen. There's a lot of other things that we need to build and fix too, and this specific request seems a little bit niche. However, we can always hope that a contributor will have time to work on this sooner than we.

[julianluisort]

Thank you!

[scorster]

+1

I once co-developed an Android app that would:

• Open a .mid document
• Whenever the user tapped the screen, the app would:

a) play the next melody note or chord

b) if the MIDI file had melody AND accompaniment, the user would simply tap like a metronome (on quarters, eighths. or sixteenths) to hear the tune play in full.

It was wonderful to see kids' enjoyment in controlling music at such a basic level, and the experience was accessible to those with no musical skill or training.

I designed another app that allowed beginners to improvise in quarter or eighth notes, based on a chosen scale. Tapping the upper half of the screen moved successively the scale; holding a press continued up the scale without requiring successive taps. Tapping the lower portion of the screen to moved down the scale; and holding a press continued downthe scale. On noPress, the options were: a) have the note repeat b) have silence.

I too would really like to see MuseScore grow in educational directions!

[julianluisort]

Dear Scorster:

Perfect, bingo! This is what I have been looking for, from a very long time. I spent many years and resources with my idea aiming, as you wisely say, “…to see kids' enjoyment (also disabled persons, beginners, and seniors) in controlling music at such a basic level, and the experience was accessible to those with no musical skill or training…I too would really like to see MuseScore grow in educational directions!...”

I couldn’t agree more with your sayings. As I see it, there is an enormous niche in the market that would add many valuable people interested in music, while also finally adding educational features for all, not just for musicians. In fact, there are much more people in the world who do not play music than those who do.

You can see an example of my instrument at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTHplwV1-Go&ab_channel=Juli%C3%A1nL.Ortuondo
The ‘jumps’ you will notice happen due to the lack of the correct ‘step’ feature I have been mentioning. The accompaniment is karaoke. With your software in Android, I am pretty sure the problem could be eliminated.

I would much appreciate if you contacted me at your earliest convenience via julianort@gmail.com.

Thank you,
Julian

[cbjeukendrup]

If you want to see such features in MuseScore, the best thing to do would be to present a (reasonably detailed) UI/UX design proposal, for example in the form of a Figma file, PDF document with images, or slideshow. Then the internal team can consider that, and give feedback, and when we agree upon it, someone with programming experience can go ahead and implement it.

An important key to success, is to design it in such way that it is easy to access for those who need it, and not disruptive for those who don't. That's why using the arrow keys as initially proposed is not an option: it would break the basic workflow of navigating through a score using the keyboard.

[julianluisort]

Thank you, cbjeukendrup. I am working on it.
.
Now, “in order to design it in such a way that it would be easy to access for those who need it, and not disruptive for those who don't (while not interfering with the basic workflow of navigating through a score using the keyboard)” a simple solution would be just using a key which is not presently being used by MuseScore. This key would simply:
.
Play the next note on the score continuously until the key is released (just as an organ).
.
A very useful addition to this key would be a second key close to it that would do exactly the same thing, to be used in playing fast repetitive actions with two fingers, index and middle (especially useful for trumpets).
.
That’s it! Can you suggest what that presently ‘not used’ key might be?
.
Thank you again.

[julianluisort]

This key will be used for the MELODY notes. I use karaoke for accompaniment, for instance.

[MarcSabatella]

FWIW, if this were only for melody, it would definitely be a niche feature and probably shouldn’t have any default shortcut, as that would make that shortcut unavailable for the more common commands people might want to assign it to. But of course, if the command were implemented, any given user could define their own shortcut for it.

On the other hand, when one considers the possibilities of this working for full scores, the real power of the idea becomes clear. Far from mere niche, it would help satisfy the very common request for a “scrubbing” playback feature, to allow composers and arrangers to more easily “proofread” (“proofhear”) their work. This is a pretty basic feature of a lot of other programs and missed by newcomers to MuseScore Studio. It would be important, then, to design the feature in such a way that it he behavior is meaningful for that use case - sustaining longer notes on one staff through shorter notes on another, etc.

[julianluisort]

We all know that ‘traditional’ music learning and playing -complex, exhausting, never ending and boring as it may be- has led many people to finally abandon it. This amazing one-note-at-a-time idea started in1928 with the Theremin method and instrument, by playing one note at a time, no accompaniment. Even today, it is sold successfully worldwide, although at a high price. In the NAMM show it was lately nominated for a first price. But, its performance is quite limited, no doubt about it.

So, let’s face it. This one-note melody playing method is NOT a niche at all. It is, finally, a practical, honest and straightforward way to teach and learn music, enabling the newcomer to ‘magically’ play a score, any instrument, from day one. How? Just as a baby learns to talk by copying words from adults, the student now listens to a song and (through its rhythm) he plays it right away, no frustration by notes missed. We do not teach babies language grammar first; we should not teach newcomers ‘music grammar’ first, then. Obviously, this is extremely exciting and fun, and could easily lead to later on continuing standard music playing and learning to the student (I have witnessed it with my prototype).

Now, to make everybody understand my idea (which has been used even by Casio instruments and other via hardware), it is not exactly a ‘scrubbing’ method, although adding scrubbing could be interesting in MuseScore, and a good partner. In my method, score timing is irrelevant: All notes are one timing long, the timing and rhythm are provided by the performer regardless of the score timing, that way freeing the student from its time tyranny. Many instruments play by itself, having no accompaniment incorporated, from trumpets to oboes. The one-note-key could be just a standard one at the computer keyboard, no need to enable or disable it, no shortcuts or commands. Easy does it.

An exciting idea would be to assemble a full orchestra with students in class to learn and play music with several computers or cellphones… Innovative ideas could be endless.

Makes sense?

[MarcSabatella]

If you want to make the case that your proposal isn't "niche", references to a niche instrument like the Theremin probably isn't the best approach :-) But in any case, it's about whether instruments like the Theremin are niche or not - it's about whether using notation software as a way of performing these instruments in real time is something the average MuseScore Studio user would ever do, and I certainly have my doubts there. But that's fine - I'm supporting your request, so arguing with what I'm saying doesn't actually help your cause :-).

My point is that even if the specific case of using MuseScore Studio as a way of controlling a Theremin in real time might not be common, wanting to control the internal playback as a way of proofreading your own score is common. So if the new feature can be designed and implemented in a way that serves both use cases, it will have a much greater chance of happening - and of being worthy of having a button on the toolbar and a default shortcut assigned.

In any case, it seems to me that more discussion with other users to understand other possible use cases would be in order here. So I'd encourage you to return to the forums at musescore.org to try to gather more input and create a more concrete proposal. Not that I have have any say in any of this - is just friendly advice from someone else who definitely would like to see this implemented if it's done in a way that the majority of users would find valuable.

I realize you already started a thread, but it's a very long way from having reached any sort of consensus, and hasn't yet addressed the scrubbing possibility. So again, best to continue the discussion there and work toward developing a more concrete proposal that has broader support from other users.

[julianluisort]

Firstly, let me make it clear that I am not arguing or trying to impose my ideas here, just suggesting an old/new approach to learning music in an innovative, friendly, amusing , effective and practical way. Although I am not comparing these great men with me, it is well known that new ideas were resisted all over the history of humankind (Columbus, Galileo, Jesus, etc.).

However, also let me clarify my sayings so they will not be misunderstood:

1- The key to innovation is change. I am not saying, anyway, that the traditional way of learning music should be discarded. My idea is to give a ‘jump-start’ to those who would like to start learning and playing music but have been discouraged by the present traditional method. I am pretty sure that all of us know many frustrated or discouraged people by this fact! Some of them who start learning with the one-key play will eventually go forward and probably improve their learning via the traditional way. What I am proposing is a ‘wedge’ placed between the music learning-playing start and the traditional methods. The market potential is enormous. In any case, it is a win-win situation. Nobody loses. Why not try it? Maybe just adding a few programming lines to the present MuseScore may make the miracle.

2- I never meant to control a Theremin with MuseScore. It was only a reference to the idea that was a kick-off to new ‘music playing’ two centuries ago, when there was not enough technology as we have today to implement it. And, I said that one-key playing is not a niche, but it could be a ‘must addition’ today to notation software. In fact, some of them have it, as I showed in my commentaries. Casio -for example- also uses it, not as a niche, obviously, but as an extra feature in their standard instruments.

3- As per the comment: “…using notation software as a way of performing these instruments in real time is something the average MuseScore Studio user would ever do, and I certainly have my doubts there.” : I agree but, again, the one-key playing is basically not intended for musicians, but for newcomers to music. What I am suggesting can end up being a dramatic increase in MuseScore users, as I see it.

4- Thank you for: “But that's fine - I'm supporting your request… is just friendly advice from someone else who definitely would like to see this implemented if it's done in a way that the majority of users would find valuable.” Trust me, it will be a great asset to MuseScore. I already won international awards for this idea.

5- I made a concrete straightforward proposal:
“Add to MuseScore a simple feature for the melody, which is: The one-note-key could be just a standard key at the computer keyboard, no need to enable or to disable it, no tabs, no shortcuts or commands. Easy does it! Even better, it could be two adjacent keys for fast playing (in parallel, same effect, as Casio does).
NOTES:
-The one-note-key actually means ‘same-time-notes.’ That means that if on the score two notes or more are played at once on the melody, the one-note-key would play all at the same time.
-For the accompaniment, the same one-note-key idea applies with chords. I did not suggest it before to make it simple. It can be implemented later on, or right now. I use karaoke for now. If there were two players playing a song, one of them could play the accompaniment and the other the melody. "

Thank you all for your support.

[julianluisort]

Following the friendly and kind advice and support here from Marc Sabatella, cbjeukendrup and scorster, I am hereby attaching a short presentation which explains the ONE-KEY-PLAY features, importance, and simplicity in implementation. It also explains the universal use of it for ALL people regardless of age, music knowledge or physical conditions; it is not only for musicians.

MuseScore users’ market may increase dramatically by adding a ONE-KEY-PLAY mode. Plus, consider the humanitarian side of it: Many disabled, children and elders will be now enabled to friendly play and learn music from day one...

I also attach here a brief description of Musicalis-Vox, an experimental device in which ONE-KEY-PLAY may also be used in the near future.

Thank you all. Your support comments here are greatly appreciated!

Julian
MUSICALIS-VOX PPT.pdf
ONE KEY PLAY PPT.pdf

[julianluisort]

Folks,

I would humbly suggest that you do a little test to help totally understand the ONE-KEY-PLAY idea based on the Casio manual explanation and a few pictures. See attached pdf file, please.

SIMPLE TEST.pdf

The Musicalis-Vox instrument is only one of the many ways to use the ONE-KEY-PLAY. It is OPTIONAL. However, it was especially designed for ONE-KEY-PLAY with interesting accessories.

A computer keyboard will suffice to play ONE-KEY-PLAY.

All ideas, questions, suggestions for improvements or comments are welcome.

Thank you!

Julian