Suggestion connected with extension of native function Text Selection (NVDA+F9 & F10)

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Reported by forum.profanum on 2015-08-27 11:07
Now we can use the text selection only when We want copy it (NVDA+F9 & F10). I would suggest adding the ability cutting selected text (For example shift+NVDA+F10).
Described extension of the text selection feature can greatly facilitate and improve the work with electronic documents. Unfortunately I know about it very well because every day I work with many documents, contracts, projects and so on and this is the only situation when I have to change screen reader NVDA on JAWS.
Blocked by #4636

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Comment 1 by Palacee_hun on 2015-08-27 21:02
NVDA+F9/F10 is for copying text from the screen (or from an object in object review mode). It'sby no means meant as a text editing shortcut, it's much more general, it works everywhere where there's text that NVDA can see. Outside of text editors/word processors cutting would have no meaning. In the text editors/word processors I know (quite a lot), Shift+arrows are there for selecting and Ctrl-X for cutting.
Would you please name the app in which these keys do not work for cutting, and Jaws can do better in this respect for you?

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Comment 2 by forum.profanum (in reply to comment 1) on 2015-08-28 13:32
Replying to Palacee_hun

Hi Palacee_hun

OK, I didn’t know that it works so general. In the word processors, for example MS Word, Shift+arrows aren’t enough. It is sufficient when You want to cut or copy only a few sentences but when You try to move a few paragraphs or pages between two documents, it’s not so precise, fast and easy.

With JAWS You can insert a start tag (Ctrl+Windows Key+K), move to the chosen location and insert end tag (JAWS Key+Space). Then when You will press “m”, text between the tags will be selected and now You can copy, cut or delete this selected text. This kind of workflow is very helpful and important under the preparations of new agreements or offers when I make many operations on the text in a word processor.

So all my suggestions lead to creating a new functionality which will allow to insert the start and end tag. Last tag will select the text between the tags and then We’ll can use system options to copy, cut or delete selected text.

I hope that now my explanations are more clear.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 3 by nvdakor on 2015-08-28 14:45
Hi there,
You can do this in Word by pressing F8 then navigating to where you wish to end selection (then copy, move, etc.). NOte that this isn't working properly in Word 2013 (will need to test it in Word 2007 and 2010) and could be atopic for another ticket.
The NVDA+F9/F10 command works with review cursor, and is useful if you found something in console windows and what not and copy it to the clipboard. This is more so if the text is written to the screen (there's no way you can cut text that is written to the screen).
Thanks.

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Comment 4 by forum.profanum (in reply to comment 3) on 2015-08-28 17:15
Replying to nvdakor:

Hi Nvdakor,

Yes, I understand the operation of this native function and Your right with JAWS but unfortunately It doesn’t work with NVDA 2015.3 and MS Word 2010.

When I press F8 in MS Word, I haven’t any information from NVDA what’s happened. I can’t also move cursor by the arrows to the interesting place to selected this part of text. Maybe I make something wrong, but I don’t think so.

IMHO, solution with two tags could be better, because We can it use also in other word processors as a Wordpad, Notepad etc.

Regards - Piotr

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Comment 5 by Palacee_hun on 2015-08-28 20:32
After researching MS docs and testing with Word 2003 (the only version I have), I found out how F8, the extend mode key can be used with NVDA:

1. Find the END of the selection you want to make and press F8.
2. Now find the start of the selection with the cursor (backwards, towards the top of document). Only this way can you track the cursor and the selection with NVDA. If you do it "normally" (from start to end, downwards), then the cursor seems to freeze, and NVDA cannot track its movement (does this happen with Jaws?), although the function works that way too.
3. Press Esc, and the text between the start and end gets selected, although you won't hear anything about this. Now you can do anything with the selection you wish.
   Sounds Awkward? Yes, certainly, but it works reliably this way and accessibly with NVDA.
   [to the MS docs, the F8 functionality didn't change in Word 2007, 2010 and 2013. Could you please test this method with them?
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   I can imagine that the Jaws selection workflow (inserting start and end tags) is faster and more effective than the Windows way of selecting with Shift+cursor movement keys. Back in the old-old days I experienced this with DOS word processors where selections were done by marking the start and end of the selection. It was surprisingly fast and effective with a screen reader.
   [[br]]
   For MS Word implementing the Jaws way of selection seems quite trivial with a macro written in VBScript for Word. I am almost sure that something similar can already be found on the net.
   Implementing this functionality generally, i.e. for other text editors/word processors is another question. I don't think Jaws does that outside of MS Office, does it?

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Comment 7 by forum.profanum (in reply to comment 5) on 2015-08-29 11:50
Replying to Palacee_hun:

Hi Palacee_hun,

I am very glad that you understand the usefulness of the feature about which I write.

Thanks a lot for this explanation with F8 key. This moving of the cursor is really strange but off course it works, also with MS Word 2010.

The problem is a lack of information from the NVDA about inserting the starting tag and selecting text after pressing the ESC key. The users should be sure what they do. Without an information it is not possible.

I checked this similar feature in JAWS. It works only in MS Word and the web browsers. It doesn’t work in other word processors like Word Pad or Notepad.

Now, I think that adding of two messages to NVDA will be a huge improvement for users of MS Word. Nevertheless I think that a new feature basing on two tags, active in other text editors would be useful to a much larger group of NVDA users.

Regards

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 8 by Palacee_hun on 2015-08-29 13:00
Does the F8 cursor strangeness I've described above (i.e. you can only select upwards, not downwards with NVDA) also occur in Jaws? I'd like to know if this strangeness is due to NVDA.
[an NVDA addon called Extended Winword Support, or something similar. I think that would be a good place to implement the needed hint messages for the F8 functionality, and also the two-tag method for Word. These seem quite easy to implement there. Those who use Word extensively could easily install the addon.
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There's)]
Implementing the two-tag selection method for all text editors/word processors is impossible, because these software use so many types of custom (i.e. not standard) text editing controls. I see three types of text editing controls for which this method could be implemented fairly easily:

1. standard multiline edit box, like Notepad
2. rich text edit box, like Wordpad
3. Scintilla-based edit boxes, like Notepad2, Notepad++, Purebasic IDE, Scitech editor etc.
   These three types would cover a lot of editors, and I think that would be enough.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 9 by forum.profanum (in reply to comment 8) on 2015-08-29 16:24
Hi Palacee_hun,

With JAWS You press F8 and You can selecting text upwards or downwards.

Thanks for a suggestion. I’ll send the link to this ticket with explanation to the authors of this addon.

And I also think, that these three word processors will be enough. IMHO, they are the most popular.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 10 by jteh on 2015-10-21 04:44
This is covered by #4636.
Changes:
Added labels: duplicate
State: closed