Implement alternative download methods

[ikmckenz]

Having other options for model download other than direct downloads could be useful.
Some ideas:

1. A BitTorrent option would help people who have inconsistent internet connections, and would lower some of the bandwidth cost from Civitai. Torrents are commonly used to share larger files like Linux ISOs, and model checkpoints would also benefit similarly.
2. I see your storage is handled by Cloudflare, maybe adding IPFS support using Cloudflares IPFS Gateway would be an easier development effort? Not 100% sure how IPFS works on Cloudflare though.

[WASasquatch]

Having other options for model download other than direct downloads could be useful. Some ideas:

1. A BitTorrent option would help people who have inconsistent internet connections, and would lower some of the bandwidth cost from Civitai. Torrents are commonly used to share larger files like Linux ISOs, and model checkpoints would also benefit similarly.

2. I see your storage is handled by Cloudflare, maybe adding IPFS support using Cloudflares IPFS Gateway would be an easier development effort? Not 100% sure how IPFS works on Cloudflare though.

I think this is something necessary, I found downloads for me fail all the time, around same 94% too which is odd. But it's a big waste of time when same model keeps failing at same part over and over. This is most common when using a threaded downloader with multiple connections to civitai, with single threaded, like default browser download, it usually is fine, but naturally slower.

[BobbtheBuilder]

the site does have definite traffic problems and i often get "site cant be reached" errors. torrents would alleviate a lot of its traffic problems.

[CrescentByte]

Just chiming in here to say that downloads are constantly cutting out for me as well, which is a minor nuisance for small files but is a HUGE pain in the ass for larger (1GB+) files! Very frustrating to deal with. And it's clear that it is caused by on the website's end because all other websites and service are working fine for me, it's only this site that's causing issues like this 🙃

[PeterNjeim]

Adding IPFS support is my recommendation, downloads will still happen in the browser while having the speed and reliability of torrents.

[PeterNjeim]

I pointed out how currently such privacy isn't granted, so I wasn't sure why you brought it up as a requirement for alleviating the downloading problems of Civitai. It seems you want privacy for downloads, but that isn't related to this discussion, so please make another discussion instead of piggybacking on this one, or use a VPN.

As for your claims, no, trackers in torrents regularly detect the downloading of pirated content, your ISP will be notified by the rights holder if you download or seed with their tracker watching (and the ISP will then notify you in some jurisdictions). The "encryption" only obfuscates that torrent traffic is occurring, meaning blanket bans on torrenting won't work.

Piracy websites like Library Genesis use IPFS because of its ease of use compared to torrenting, with no requirement of "seeding", making it legal in some jurisdictions. "Seeding" is instead done by members of the whole IPFS swarm, without specifically choosing to host the file.

As Bing said previously, IPFS does indeed support encrypting the traffic as well, so IPFS takes the cake here.

Please note that I would rather not continue this tangent here, if you make a new discussion about your feature request please share the link, otherwise let's stay on topic about how Civitai can provide more reliable and faster downloads.

[WASasquatch]

The point is, it offers security as well as being a standard for online downloads, where IPFS doesn't offer that benefit, or standardized, and barely catching on.

IPFS encrypts user data, not file data. This is obviously by design because of how torrents are abused for illegal stuff like movies.

Also, no. How you're found out for torrents is recognizing torrent traffic, and then traffic not being ecnrypted, and you'll get an email citing the name of the file you were downloading, because it's not encrypted, these names are found automatically by list, not copyright owner, as it's a deal with ISPs to crack down on copyright infringement actively. When you require end-to-end encryption, not even the filenames of files, let alone content, can be just read at will, it has to be decrypted.

When 95% of the site is porn, it's a great approach to take. Lol

Using something standard, means it'll actually be used, too. Just by using IPFS means it may be a wasted endeavor as hardly anyone uses it, and people won't go installing stuff just to download instead of just doing a straight download. But most people in this situation of alternate downloads will have a torrent client.

[PeterNjeim]

Most of what you said is false, unfortunately. It seems you're a little in over your head here. Not only that but most of what you said is already refuted by what I've said earlier, and I don't like talking in circles so this will be my last message on this tangent (if you want to continue it please open a new discussion like I asked you to).

As I said previously, torrent traffic can be encrypted and obfuscated to avoid detection by ISPs or other parties, however encryption does not prevent tracking by peers or trackers who can see your IP address and the files you are downloading or uploading. Please stop disputing this. There's a reason why it's recommended to use a VPN when torrenting, because your IP is visible when torrenting, it isn't private.

For example, where I live in Canada, rights holders who use trackers to detect illegal downloads have the right to contact an ISP about that infringement, and the ISP is then required to send that same notice as an email to you. The ISP only acts as an intermediary in this case. The system is called Notice and Notice.

As Bing said previously, IPFS encrypts user data to protect their privacy and identity, but it doesn't encrypt file data by default because it aims to make the data accessible and reusable by anyone who has the hash. However, IPFS does support encryption at the application layer, so users can choose to encrypt their files if they want to.

Bing says:

The name of the file you are downloading is not necessarily exposed by the lack of encryption, as it depends on how the torrent is created and distributed. Some torrents may use private trackers or magnet links, which do not reveal the file name to anyone except the peers in the swarm. Even if the file name is available, it does not mean that you will get an email from your ISP or anyone else, as this depends on their policies and practices.

The names of the files are not found by a list, but by a torrent file or a magnet link, which contain information about the files and their hashes. These files or links may be created by anyone, including the copyright owner or an authorized distributor, or by someone who does not have the legal permission to share them.

Different ISP's may have different approaches and agreements regarding torrenting and piracy, ranging from ignoring it to throttling it to sending warnings or notices to taking legal action.

Your end-to-end encryption claim is true, but irrelevant. End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is used for messaging apps, email systems, password managers, and other applications that need to protect the privacy and integrity of data. E2EE does not apply to torrenting, as there is no single sender and receiver of data, but multiple peers that exchange pieces of files with each other.

As I said previously, people do not need to install anything to use IPFS, instead they can use a public gateway.

As I said previously, IPFS is so popular that massive piracy websites like Library Genesis now use it. If IPFS wasn't popular, why would one of the largest content delivery networks in the world, Cloudflare, host its own IPFS public gateway? It seems you're just making things up at this point.

Anyways, hope you learned something and got a bit humbled, it's one thing to not know something, it's another thing to share things you know you don't know as being true.

[WASasquatch]

Most of what you said is false, unfortunately. It seems you're a little in over your head here. Not only that but most of what you said is already refuted by what I've said earlier, and I don't like talking in circles so this will be my last message on this tangent (if you want to continue it please open a new discussion like I asked you to).

No. This topic is fine.

As I said previously, torrent traffic can be encrypted and obfuscated to avoid detection by ISPs or other parties, however encryption does not prevent tracking by peers or trackers who can see your IP address and the files you are downloading or uploading. Please stop disputing this. There's a reason why it's recommended to use a VPN when torrenting, because your IP is visible when torrenting, it isn't private.

For example, where I live in Canada, rights holders who use trackers to detect illegal downloads have the right to contact an ISP about that infringement, and the ISP is then required to send that same notice as an email to you. The ISP only acts as an intermediary in this case. The system is called Notice and Notice.

That isn't even the topic. The topic is the downloads file content itself. Not your IP. With Force Encryption, the file content is encrypted. Your ISP can't see it. So unless your peer is untrusted, what are you even on about? A tracker will not be used to see the content of the download when Force Encryption is on. They will see torrenting traffic and your IP, and cannot harass you on that alone with no basis. That's frivolous and you could sue. Unless you're living in 2008 and downloading non-obfuscated .torrent filenames. The filenames, such as the actual video file of a illegal download, is encrypted. This is why people can continue to download movies and such without any harassment from Comcast or otherwise, and plenty of tutorials on how to setup your client for it (even without a VPN).

[Ommited Rhetoric; Don't ever cite Bing AI; etc.]

https://docs.ipfs.tech/concepts/privacy-and-encryption/

Again, the content of your downloads is not encrypted, and is by design.

[PeterNjeim]

This is a bad look for you. Not only did you fail to respond to most of my rebuttal, you yet again repeated your baseless claims that torrenting is private, and that IPFS isn't. All a rights holder needs to do is be your peer or tracker, and all the encryption in the world won't protect you. I know it's hard to admit you're wrong, but doing what you're doing makes you look even worse. And again, you're going off topic, make a new discussion for your feature request, this discussion is for more reliable download alternatives.

Just to spite you, I will utilize Bing to accurately summarize web resources again:

Force Encryption is a feature in some BitTorrent clients that allows you to encrypt your BitTorrent traffic to avoid ISP throttling and detection. However, Force Encryption is not a foolproof way to protect your privacy and security when downloading illegal content. Here are some reasons why:

• Force Encryption is not widely supported by all BitTorrent clients and trackers, so you may have fewer peers to connect with and slower download speeds.
• Force Encryption does not hide your IP address, which can be used to identify you and your location. Anyone who joins the same torrent swarm as you can see your IP address and potentially track your activity.
• Force Encryption does not prevent rights holders from monitoring BitTorrent networks and sending DMCA notices to your ISP or legal threats to you. Rights holders can also join the torrent swarm and see what files you are downloading and uploading.

Therefore, Force Encryption is not a reliable way to anonymize and encrypt your BitTorrent traffic. If you want to download illegal content without being detected, you need a more robust solution, such as a VPN or a proxy. A VPN or a proxy can hide your IP address, encrypt your traffic, and bypass ISP throttling and blocking. However, not all VPNs or proxies are suitable for torrenting, so you need to choose one that is fast, secure, and torrent-friendly.

You've made too many false statements and treated them as factual, I won't be responding to you further, even if it is on topic

[ikmckenz]

Any thoughts on this from the staff? With BitTorrent there wouldn't need to be a tracker infrastructure, only magnet links are necessary to support this. This could drastically reduce bandwidth costs for Civitai, as well as making downloads more reliable for people on unstable internet connections. It's a major win for everyone.