# French space for guillemets #141

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opened this Issue Apr 13, 2016 · 23 comments

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### maieul commented Apr 13, 2016

 The @hugoroy commit 6bcba5a breaks the csquotes french guillemets Cf this MWE _\documentclass{article} \usepackage{polyglossia} \setmainlanguage{french} \setotherlanguage{english} \usepackage[french=guillemets]{csquotes} \MakeOuterQuote{"} \begin{document} \enquote{s} "s" \enquote{x} «x»_ \end{document} Before the commit before.pdf After the commit after.pdf
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### reutenauer commented Apr 13, 2016

 Hum, that’s bad, thanks for the report. I’ll have a look.
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### maieul commented Apr 13, 2016

 I think the problem is that \MakeOuterQuote{"} already insert a space, cf \documentclass{article} \usepackage{polyglossia} \setmainlanguage{french} \setotherlanguage{english} \usepackage[french=guillemets]{csquotes} \MakeOuterQuote{"} \makeatletter \apptocmd{\french@punctuation}{% \XeTeXinterchartoks \french@punctguillstart 255 = {\nobreakspace\xpg@nospace}% "« " -> "«~" \XeTeXinterchartoks 255 \french@punctguillend = {\xpg@unskip\nobreakspace}% " »" -> "~»" }{}{} \makeatother \begin{document} \enquote{s} "s" \enquote{x} « x » " s " «x» \end{document} 
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### reutenauer commented Apr 13, 2016

 Yes, clearly there’s a conflict between the two requirements. It’s really not clear to me what’s the best choice is.

### aurelberra commented Apr 13, 2016

 Indeed. Uncommenting the lines which deal with 255 + quotes in gloss-french.ldf solves the problem, I think. A. On mer. 13 avr. 2016 at 16:10, Maïeul Rouquette notifications@github.com wrote: I think the problem is that \MakeOuterQuote{"} already insert a space, cf \documentclass{article} \usepackage{polyglossia} \setmainlanguage{french} \setotherlanguage{english} \usepackage[french=guillemets] {csquotes} \MakeOuterQuote{"} \makeatletter \apptocmd{\french@punctuation}{% \XeTeXinterchartoks \french@punctguillstart 255 = {\nobreakspace\xpg@nospace}% "« " -> "«" \XeTeXinterchartoks 255 \french@punctguillend = {\xpg@unskip\nobreakspace}% " »" -> "»" }{}{} \makeatother \begin{document} \enquote{s} "s" \enquote{x} « x » " s " «x» \end{document} — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub #141 (comment)
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### maieul commented Apr 13, 2016

 @aurelberra it solves our problem, but reinstalls @hugoroy problem :-)

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### aurelberra commented Apr 13, 2016

 Yes, sorry: I had missed the motivation for the commit. But isn't it a clear logical principle to simplify input (" or «) or make it semantic (\enquote) rather than mix it with presentation of the content («\space) ? On mer. 13 avr. 2016 at 16:13, Maïeul Rouquette notifications@github.com wrote: @aurelberra https://github.com/aurelberra it solve us problem, but reinstall @hugoroy https://github.com/hugoroy problem :-) — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub #141 (comment)
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### maieul commented Apr 13, 2016

 Yes, sorry: I had missed the motivation for the commit. But isn't it a clear logical principle to simplify input (" or �) or make it semantic (\enquote) rather than mix it with content (�\space) ? yes indeed, but it should be to automatically clean the �\space, and I think Arthur will find the way ;-)
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### maieul commented May 1, 2016

 \XeTeXinterchartoks \french@punctguillstart 255 = {\nobreakspace\xpg@nospace\ignorespaces}% "« " -> "«~" seems to be the good one. Allow both « s » and «s»
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### maieul commented May 1, 2016

 ah thats does not work for " s "
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### maieul commented May 1, 2016

 but for " s " concerned csquotes, and so it is a bug in this one. So I suggest to integrate my solution, and I will open an issue for csquotes.

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### hugoroy commented May 1, 2016 • edited

 \XeTeXinterchartoks \french@punctguillstart 255 = {\nobreakspace\xpg@nospace\ignorespaces}% "« " -> "«~" seems to be the good one. Allow both « s » and «s» No because it does not work for «s» or « s » (with non breakable space character)
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### maieul commented May 2, 2016

 hum, in this case I afraid the only solution will be to add an option. But the default one should be the historical behavior: automatically inserting space.
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### hugoroy commented May 2, 2016

 Wouln't be better fixed in csquotes? If I understand correctly, everything works fine except in combination with csquotes.
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### maieul commented May 3, 2016

 hum… maybe we should test for «s» in csquotes.
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## Yes I think so, especially because this facilitates compatibility with document written with babel/latex in mind and probably other contexts as well.

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### aurelberra commented May 3, 2016

 I also think that this is to be dealt with in the csquotes issue opened by @maieul.

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### maieul commented Jan 28, 2017

 The csquotes mainteners close the issue. I suggest to revert the commit @hugoroy and to come back to the previous behavior. No one should add space around guillemet in the code. Maybe we could get the code of @hugoroy as an option, but not the default behavior.

### aurelberra commented Jan 29, 2017

 I fully agree with @maieul's proposal. Such spaces should be an option.

### aurelberra commented Apr 5, 2017

 I would like to know if there has been any progress on this problem. Cf. #145.

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### maieul added a commit to maieul/polyglossia that referenced this issue Apr 5, 2017

 issue reutenauer#141, coming back to older behavior with french guill… 
…emets (problem introduced by 6bcba5a)

With this, the example in this MWE are working
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setmainlanguage{french}
\setotherlanguage{english}
\usepackage[]{csquotes}
\MakeOuterQuote{"}
\begin{document}

\enquote{x}

«a»

« a »

" a "
\end{document}
 899cfe4 

### maieul added a commit to maieul/polyglossia that referenced this issue Apr 5, 2017

 A automaticspacesaroundguillemets option, to solve the multiple problems 
on reutenauer#141
 4d1f9b8 

### ArchangeGabriel commented Apr 5, 2017 • edited

 I’m not sure what this issue is about, but I personally type thing as « s » or « s » when unbreakable spaces are not supported by the other people working with me on a doc. Because I want my source code to already be the most typographically right as possible. Anyway, I’ve been using Babel for a long time now since it now seems to be superior to polyglossia, at least for my use.
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### maieul commented Apr 6, 2017

 I think that is a bad idea. The code should be as simple as possible, and the engines should make the result typographically right.

Merged

### ArchangeGabriel commented Apr 15, 2017

 I’m concerned about being able to extract my “code” and use it in something else than a LaTeX document without having to run a script on it or modify things by hand. But anyway, I’m not an user of polyglossia, so if you’re all fine with that then it’s your right. ;)