Podcast Series Order #600
Comments
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@AshbyGeek Thanks for the detailed issue and your suggestions! First of all, this problem is caused by Audible (or the podcast author/publisher). They've chosen to make the most recent episode #1, and then increment backwards. I doubt it's unique to this podcast, but it's not universal.
That's an interesting idea. At least moving forward, series numbers may be more accurate. The only problem I see is that the publication date may be missing for some queried items. If that happens, then what? @rmcrackan What do you think? I really would like to make that feature, but it's fraught. If you begin remaining and suddenly one of the files has the same path/name as another file, what do you do? Give it a temp name until you that other file is renamed, the go back and rename it? That can get very hard to juggle correctly. Maybe create a temporary books folder and move/rename all files into it, then move all files back to the main books folder? Maybe, but then you're running into potential problems like:
And then we have the problem of file locks. This is only a problem on Windows, but services like the search indexer and cloud folder sync may lock some files and prevent renaming/moving. Then what? Just leave the mess for the user to clean up?
Deaf ears, my friend. So I'm sorry to say, I think re-downloading is going to be your only option here. |
Audible is a terrible steward of metadata, especially for less popular titles. Fixing their failings is sisyphean -- there's always one more (and Libation has many years of such fixes to prove it). This firmly falls into the category of: if you find it an interesting challenge to solve then go for it but it's not our job to fix. A generalized solution would be for column ascending/descending sorting to apply within the podcast. That way the user can sort by release date ascending/descending and see whichever way they want. If no release date is given by audible, I imagine the default comparer will just clump them as DateTime.MinValue. RE #426 -- I love this in theory. In practice, it's filled with all the problems you mention and so many more. Bulk file management is a logistical minefield. |
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Re: 426. Don't go there. Applications that try to manage the file system on Windows are doomed to problems and sorrow. BTDT, got the t-shirt.
OTOH, trying to help Audible with their metadata issues is, while fraught, not likely to make things worse. (I doubt it's possible, frankly. ). And having some way to fix sort order in podcasts would be a boon. Though it won't fix "filename too long" problems with Quirks & Quarks, I'm afraid.
Charlie.
(he/him/his)
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Subject: Re: [rmcrackan/Libation] Podcast Series Order (Issue #600)
@Mbucari<https://github.com/Mbucari>
That's an interesting idea. At least moving forward, series numbers may be more accurate. The only problem I see is that the publication date may be missing for some queried items. If that happens, then what?
Audible is a terrible steward of metadata, especially for less popular titles. Fixing their failings is sisyphean -- there's always one more (and Libation has many years of such fixes to prove it). This firmly falls into the category of: if you find it an interesting challenge to solve then go for it but it's not our job to fix.
A generalized solution would be for column ascending/descending sorting to apply within the podcast. That way the user can sort by release date ascending/descending and see whichever way they want. If no release date is given by audible, I imagine the default comparer will just clump them as DateTime.MinValue.
RE #426<#426> -- I love this in theory. In practice, it's filled with all the problems you mention and so many more. Bulk file management is a logistical minefield.
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I haven't looked too hard into Libation's code, how hard would it be to add a per-podcast option to reverse the episode order? That way we could dump the inconsistent metadata problem on the end-user. Alternatively we could add both a 'reversed series #' tag to those available in the custom file naming settings, and a per-series custom file naming overide. Again, haven't looked at the code yet so I don't have any idea how hard such changes are; I'm just trying to think of alternative solutions. |
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I'll post some more replies on #426 for your comments that are more related to that issue. |
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Also, I've asked the creator of this particular podcast if there's a way for him to correct the episode ordering issue using his publish tools. |
Not sure yet. Are we talking about an operation performed at the time a file is written, not when the podcasts are imported in the library? So no DB modifications and the main display still shows the original titles? @rmcrackan I'd been thinking about plugins, and I know you'd mentioned them before too. I could never get passed the questions of what scope to provide the plugin environment, but file naming/writing might be a really good place to start. Let plugins override things like filenames and write events. |
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@AshbyGeek Version 10.3.0 is live. After you next scan your library you'll see that episodes are numbered chronologically. |
Does is still do a full scan if there are no changes to Books? |
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Maybe Hangover needs a re-index button for times like this |
Yes. The full lubrary is re-imported after every full library scan, and the display grid is updated. |
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But the search engine isn't re-indexed unless the database saves changes: Libation/Source/ApplicationServices/LibraryCommands.cs Lines 324 to 325 in 9372a73 |
You're right, search won't re-index unless there's a new library book added. But the db is updated, so the grid display and file naming will reflect the new series numbering. |
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@rmcrackan This is a bit out of scope for this issue, but since we're already here.. |
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@rmcrackan Nevermind, all is ok! Libation/Source/ApplicationServices/LibraryCommands.cs Lines 320 to 325 in 9372a73 qtyChanges tracks all changes, not just new books |
Thanks! Worked like a charm. :) |
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I just downloaded a few podcasts (the sort that are more like a series of audiobooks), and the numbering was all over the place. One of them, they were all reversed (there are 8 episodes, episode 8 was listed as 1 in the metadata, and episode 1 was listed as 8), and another, it appeared to be random. HOWEVER, looking at the Here's an example of "Episode 1" of "Alien: Out of the Shadows": {
"asin": "B08GCBT584",
"asset_details": [],
"authors": [
{
"asin": "B001IU0D3U",
"name": "Tim Lebbon"
},
{
"asin": "B07RJ1RB8T",
"name": "Dirk Maggs"
}
],
"available_codecs": [
{
"enhanced_codec": "format4",
"format": "Format4",
"is_kindle_enhanced": false,
"name": "format4"
},
{
"enhanced_codec": "LC_128_44100_stereo",
"format": "Enhanced",
"is_kindle_enhanced": true,
"name": "aax_44_128"
},
{
"enhanced_codec": "LC_64_44100_stereo",
"format": "Enhanced",
"is_kindle_enhanced": true,
"name": "aax_44_64"
},
{
"enhanced_codec": "mp444128",
"format": "Enhanced",
"is_kindle_enhanced": true,
"name": "mp4_44_128"
},
{
"enhanced_codec": "mp44464",
"format": "Enhanced",
"is_kindle_enhanced": true,
"name": "mp4_44_64"
},
{
"enhanced_codec": "aax",
"format": "Enhanced",
"is_kindle_enhanced": false,
"name": "aax"
}
],
"category_ladders": [
{
"ladder": [
{
"id": "18580606011",
"name": "Science Fiction & Fantasy"
},
{
"id": "18580607011",
"name": "Fantasy"
},
{
"id": "18580614011",
"name": "Dramatizations"
}
],
"root": "Genres"
},
{
"ladder": [
{
"id": "18580606011",
"name": "Science Fiction & Fantasy"
},
{
"id": "18580628011",
"name": "Science Fiction"
},
{
"id": "18580634011",
"name": "Dramatizations"
}
],
"root": "Genres"
},
{
"ladder": [
{
"id": "18580606011",
"name": "Science Fiction & Fantasy"
},
{
"id": "18580628011",
"name": "Science Fiction"
},
{
"id": "18580636011",
"name": "First Contact"
}
],
"root": "Genres"
}
],
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastEpisode",
"content_type": "Podcast",
"customer_reviews": [
{
"asin": "B08GCBT584",
"author_id": "amzn1.account.AG4X62VGE4ESSOOUYM3ILPN5CJIQ",
"body": "good one.Had a very different experience on listening to the audiobook.overall i enjoyed the audiobook",
"format": "Freeform",
"id": "358bafa79d3443969803baf4bebe2c9c",
"ratings": {
"overall_rating": 4,
"performance_rating": 3,
"story_rating": 2
},
"review_content_scores": {
"content_quality": 50,
"num_helpful_votes": 0,
"num_unhelpful_votes": 0
},
"submission_date": "2023-01-12T07:33:25Z",
"title": "Good"
},
{
"asin": "B08GCBT584",
"author_id": "amzn1.account.AGEXCW6CONJKRGKQJUXPILMNOECQ",
"author_name": "Jesse",
"body": "This is just so good. I cannot even see how good this is. If you like the alien movie, he will like this. ",
"format": "Freeform",
"id": "d13a1fd9f6404c2f83143ba9e579828c",
"location": "",
"ratings": {
"overall_rating": 5,
"performance_rating": 5,
"story_rating": 5
},
"review_content_scores": {
"content_quality": 50,
"num_helpful_votes": 0,
"num_unhelpful_votes": 0
},
"submission_date": "2023-01-04T17:44:02Z",
"title": "Wow"
},
{
"asin": "B08GCBT584",
"author_id": "amzn1.account.AEKL6AT7DOOSZNADZU7MEYR24W2A",
"body": "good one.Had a very different experience on listening to the audiobook.overall i enjoyed the audiobook",
"format": "Freeform",
"id": "ca21496f99f54017b9f85f5de37808c4",
"ratings": {
"overall_rating": 4,
"performance_rating": 4,
"story_rating": 4
},
"review_content_scores": {
"content_quality": 50,
"num_helpful_votes": 0,
"num_unhelpful_votes": 0
},
"submission_date": "2022-09-29T08:34:43Z",
"title": "good"
}
],
"episode_number": 6,
"episode_type": "full",
"format_type": "original_recording",
"has_children": false,
"is_adult_product": false,
"is_listenable": true,
"is_purchasability_suppressed": true,
"is_vvab": false,
"issue_date": "2018-12-07",
"language": "english",
"merchandising_summary": "<p>Unconscious, unaware, Ripley is the last human survivor of the Nostromo, her shuttle lost in deep space....</p>",
"narrators": [
{
"asin": "B0C9MBM8ZJ",
"name": "Rutger Hauer"
},
{
"name": "Corey Johnson"
},
{
"name": "Matthew Lewis"
},
{
"asin": "B0C9M9XN4S",
"name": "Kathryn Drysdale"
},
{
"name": "Andrea Deck"
},
{
"name": "Mac McDonald"
}
],
"plans": [
{
"end_date": "2099-12-31T00:00:00Z",
"plan_name": "US Minerva",
"start_date": "2020-08-20T19:13:00.00013Z"
}
],
"price": {},
"product_images": {
"500": "https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qUUcL9noL._SL500_.jpg"
},
"program_participation": "Audible Original",
"publication_datetime": "2018-12-07T00:00:00Z",
"publisher_name": "Audible Originals",
"publisher_summary": "<p>Unconscious, unaware, Ripley is the last human survivor of the Nostromo, her shuttle lost in deep space. Meanwhile, the crew aboard the mining ship Marion, faces a catastrophic collision with one of its own dropships and has to contend with the alien infestation on board.</p> <p>Marooned in a decaying orbit above the planetoid LV-178, the crew struggle to tackle the threat at hand, when an unexpected visitor makes her presence known.</p>",
"rating": {
"num_reviews": 10,
"overall_distribution": {
"average_rating": 4.741573033707865,
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"display_stars": 4.5,
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"num_two_star_ratings": 1
},
"performance_distribution": {
"average_rating": 4.802469135802469,
"display_average_rating": "4.8",
"display_stars": 5.0,
"num_five_star_ratings": 69,
"num_four_star_ratings": 8,
"num_one_star_ratings": 0,
"num_ratings": 81,
"num_three_star_ratings": 4,
"num_two_star_ratings": 0
},
"story_distribution": {
"average_rating": 4.654320987654321,
"display_average_rating": "4.7",
"display_stars": 4.5,
"num_five_star_ratings": 61,
"num_four_star_ratings": 13,
"num_one_star_ratings": 0,
"num_ratings": 81,
"num_three_star_ratings": 6,
"num_two_star_ratings": 1
}
},
"relationships": [
{
"asin": "B08GC2361R",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastParent",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sort": "1",
"title": "Alien: Out of the Shadows",
"url": "/pd/Alien-Out-of-the-Shadows-Podcast/B08GC2361R"
},
{
"asin": "B08GC1JF2B",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastSeason",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sort": "1",
"title": "season",
"url": "/pd/season-Podcast/B08GC1JF2B"
}
],
"release_date": "2018-12-07",
"runtime_length_min": 29,
"sample_url": "https://samples.audible.com/pc/30eo/000001/pc_30eo_000001_sample.mp3",
"sku": "PC_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PC_30EO_000001",
"social_media_images": {
"facebook": "https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qUUcL9noL._SL10_UR1600,800_CR200,50,1200,630_CLa%7C1200,630%7C51qUUcL9noL.jpg%7C0,0,1200,630+107,79,402,402_PJAdblSocialShare-Gradientoverlay-smallasin-0to70,TopLeft,0,0_PJAdblSocialShare-AudibleLogo-Large,TopLeft,576,270_OU01_ZBLISTENING%20ON,593,216,52,500,AudibleSansMd,30,255,255,255_PJAdblSocialShare-PodcastIcon-Small,TopLeft,1094,50_ZBEpisode%201,106,519,48,404,AudibleSansMd,24,255,255,255.jpg",
"twitter": "https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qUUcL9noL._SL10_UR1600,800_CR200,50,1024,512_CLa%7C1024,512%7C51qUUcL9noL.jpg%7C0,0,1024,512+97,64,320,320_PJAdblSocialShare-Gradientoverlay-twitter-smallasin-0to60,TopLeft,0,0_PJAdblSocialShare-AudibleLogo-Medium,TopLeft,490,223_OU01_ZBLISTENING%20ON,483,152,55,450,AudibleSansMd,32,255,255,255_PJAdblSocialShare-PodcastIcon-Small,TopLeft,929,45_ZBEpisode%201,96,417,54,320,AudibleSansMd,24,255,255,255.jpg"
},
"thesaurus_subject_keywords": [
"audible_original",
"dramatizations"
],
"title": "Episode 1",
"ChapterInfo": {
"brandIntroDurationMs": 0,
"brandOutroDurationMs": 0,
"chapters": [
{
"chapters": null,
"length_ms": 1748323,
"start_offset_ms": 0,
"start_offset_sec": 0,
"title": "Chapter 1"
}
],
"is_accurate": true,
"runtime_length_ms": 1748323,
"runtime_length_sec": 1748
},
"ContentReference": {
"acr": "CR!8E9JHSKFWX2ZV3X0XBGGQSPDTSAK",
"asin": "B08GCBT584",
"codec": "mp4a.40.2",
"content_format": "AAX_44_128",
"content_size_in_bytes": 28200123,
"file_version": "1",
"marketplace": "AF2M0KC94RCEA",
"sku": "PC_30EO_000001",
"tempo": "1.0",
"version": "17793621"
}
}If you look, it has "relationships": [
{
"asin": "B08GC2361R",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastParent",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sort": "1",
"title": "Alien: Out of the Shadows",
"url": "/pd/Alien-Out-of-the-Shadows-Podcast/B08GC2361R"
},
{
"asin": "B08GC1JF2B",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastSeason",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sort": "1",
"title": "season",
"url": "/pd/season-Podcast/B08GC1JF2B"
}I don't know if we should be looking at Edit: "relationships": [
{
"asin": "B08GC2361R",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastParent",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PD_30EO_000001",
"sort": "7",
"title": "Alien: Out of the Shadows",
"url": "/pd/Alien-Out-of-the-Shadows-Podcast/B08GC2361R"
},
{
"asin": "B08GC1JF2B",
"content_delivery_type": "PodcastSeason",
"relationship_to_product": "parent",
"relationship_type": "episode",
"sku": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sku_lite": "PS_30EO_000001",
"sort": "7",
"title": "season",
"url": "/pd/season-Podcast/B08GC1JF2B"
}There was another series that I thought it was off by one, but that was because the one with |
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Well darn, it appears this all depends on who authors the series? The "Harry Potter" podcast in the OP example appears to be using the |
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Yeah, it might have been on another thread, but that's what a couple of the old-timers here told me. Super unfortunate. |
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Since this appears to be an issue of "Some use the |
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@CLHatch Here's how Libation interprets the series order from Audible's Libation/Source/AudibleUtilities/ApiExtended.cs Lines 252 to 284 in 768afd8 It's kind of complicated, and I think the code does a better job of explaining itself than I could with English. |
I'll look at that in a bit, about to start cooking dinner. But from what I've seen, it appears the code is picking correctly for that HP series, but not for the other three I've tried so far. I'll add some screenshots of how it ordered them (the number at the beginning is from Libation, and the one in the title is what they are named). This appears correct: These appear be wrong:
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So if I'm looking at that right, |
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If you give me a few quick hints on how to grab that metadata that includes
the sort flag, I would collect that info for the podcasts I have listened
to on audible so that we can do some more manual correlation before
changing code.
…On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, 7:37 PM CLHatch ***@***.***> wrote:
@CLHatch <https://github.com/CLHatch> Here's how Libation interprets the
series order from Audible's sort and episode_number.
https://github.com/rmcrackan/Libation/blob/768afd8ecd42a4eead72adaa0e0a7250fb943147/Source/AudibleUtilities/ApiExtended.cs#L252-L284
It's kind of complicated, and I think the code does a better job of
explaining itself than I could with English.
So if I'm looking at that right, sort only comes into play if
episode_number is null, correct? How about if we did like I suggested,
and have the option to use sort INSTEAD of episode_number, an a
per-podcast basis? Because it appears for those three that gave the
incorrect ordering, doing that would fix them.
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Good idea. I've literally just started looking at the podcasts for one or two days here. :-D One way to check the |
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Awesome. I've got to put my kids to bed, but after that I should have a few
minutes to grab info and post it.
…On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, 7:49 PM CLHatch ***@***.***> wrote:
If you give me a few quick hints on how to grab that metadata that
includes the sort flag, I would collect that info for the podcasts I have
listened to on audible so that we can do some more manual correlation
before changing code.
… <#m_-7989160781498920630_>
On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, 7:37 PM CLHatch *@*.*> wrote: @CLHatch
<https://github.com/CLHatch> https://github.com/CLHatch
<https://github.com/CLHatch> Here's how Libation interprets the series
order from Audible's sort and episode_number.
https://github.com/rmcrackan/Libation/blob/768afd8ecd42a4eead72adaa0e0a7250fb943147/Source/AudibleUtilities/ApiExtended.cs#L252-L284
<https://github.com/rmcrackan/Libation/blob/768afd8ecd42a4eead72adaa0e0a7250fb943147/Source/AudibleUtilities/ApiExtended.cs#L252-L284>
It's kind of complicated, and I think the code does a better job of
explaining itself than I could with English. So if I'm looking at that
right, sort only comes into play if episode_number is null, correct? How
about if we did like I suggested, and have the option to use sort INSTEAD
of episode_number, an a per-podcast basis? Because it appears for those
three that gave the incorrect ordering, doing that would fix them. — Reply
to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#600 (comment)
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Good idea. I've literally just started looking at the podcasts for one or
two days here. :-D
One way to check the sort value would be to check the option in this
screenshot, and have Libation grab them. Then look at the
<filename>.metatada.json file it creates alongside the audio file.
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/13066223/258948251-2e812ad6-5c9a-4fe0-8496-ad4877fe6573.png>
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Basically right.
I don't have a problem with that on principle, I just don't know how to work it into the UI. Maybe a context menu item on podcasts, but it's such a niche option and only power users would have any idea what the hell it even means. |
A context menu on the parent podcast item was what I was thinking of. And true, definitely a "power user" option, but I'm thinking one we sort of need, if we want to try to get podcast episodes ordered right. I have a feeling there will still be outliers that it still won't fix, but I'm also hoping it will fix the majority of them, having an option like that. |
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Ok, here's an example of why trusting the 'episode number' is dangerous (rehashed for old-timers, but worth noting again). I chopped out non-pertinent parts of the metadata.json Intentionally Blank - Episode 1 "Popcornture vs Stubad" Episode 53 - "I Can't Give You a Hemi" Audible does show "I can't give you a Hemi" as approximately episode 53. I'm really not sure what's going on with the 'Season' numbers though. Here's another later episode for comparison in case it is somehow pertinent: Different podcast (Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality) Episode 1 Episode 2 and a very recent episode It is interesting to note that on this podcast Audible itself seems to be confused as listing episodes from "old to new" puts episode 103 (the latest) at the top of the list. No such problem for the "Intentionally Blank" podcast. Here's a third podcast I listen to "Follow Him: A Come Follow Me Podcast" This one is actually probably episode 144 of that podcast, I didn't want to actually count that many items down the screen (after I finally found it), but that seems approximately right. No funny business with the sort order on the audible page on this one though. Here's another episode for comparison. I looked at a couple other episodes of this podcast and it might be that it is out of order because the 'season_number' field is ignored by Libation. Probably should make that a new issue though. Summing up
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One more podcast I went and grabbed at random just for comparison: "official trailer" No "season_number" field on this podcast episode. Episode 1 Episode 2 Maybe "season_number" only shows up if the podcast has more than 1 season listed? |
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I still have the issue that the podcast order is not correct (it's just random). https://www.audible.es/pd/Por-que-matamos-Podcast/B093ZPF63V?qid=1701450664&sr=1-1&ref_pageloadid=not_applicable&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=edc39886-a4e3-4991-8ce5-effa92157a44&pf_rd_r=G1QFDYKMND9K7T3ZZDN4&pageLoadId=5rR7m0m7NBuLA9XW&ref_plink=not_applicable&creativeId=41e85e98-10b8-40e2-907d-6b663f04a42d Is there any way around this where I can use the pub date? Also, the metadata doesnt seem to be correctly encoded. E.g. publication date is missing altogether in the resulting m4b files. |
Yeah, most the podcasts I've looked at it ends up being completely random. He fixed one podcast, but others are broken. It seems everyone orders them using a different method? |
Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.
Podcasts play from newest to oldest in the audible app, I want to play it the other way around so I thought I would download the episodes I haven't listened to yet (I've previously downloaded some of the podcast for archival purposes). Unfortunately, the 'series order' numbers are not reliable in this scenario. The oldest episode is currently labeled as episode 90 and the newest is episode 1. Since I'm using the series number in the name to differentiate, this means my books folder has multiple 'episode 1s' listed, since I downloaded them on different dates.
Describe the solution you'd like
Reverse the series order number of podcasts so that they will remain consistent as new episodes are published.
Describe alternatives you've considered
Additional context
I only have one podcast in the audible app, so it's possible that this is a problem unique to this podcast. If so, the podcast is Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and my proposed solutions will probably be inadequate.
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