Minutes 31 August 2017
Date: 2017-08-31
See also IRC Log
Present: Julian Calderazi, Avneesh Singh, Rachel Comerford, Bill Kasdorf, John Costa, Tzviya Siegman, Dave Cramer, George Kersher
Regrets:
Guests: jayPanoz
Chair: Dave Cramer
Scribe(s): Tzviya Siegman
dauwhe: Meeting: EPUB 3 CG Telecon
dauwhe: https://w3c.github.io/wpub/
tzviya: dave: Update on Publishing WG
dauwhe: https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues
tzviya: ...There is the beginning of a spec
tzviya: ...There are a lot of issues
tzviya: ...There is the beginning of a model in the manifest section
tzviya: ...We would like some input on the kinds of books that can't be done in EPUB now because of its restrictions
Bill_Kasdorf: In what form would you like the examples?
tzviya: ...This could influence the design of WPUB
Bill_Kasdorf: Also, the obligatory question: just books?
tzviya: rachel: which format would you like to see examples?
dauwhe: tzviya: real, code-based examples are important to help convince browser vendors
tzviya: tzviya: imaginary examples are good, but we need solid examples of code. here is a link to toc sample https://github.com/w3c/wpub/wiki/ToC-Samples
tzviya: tzviya: Browser devs need to see real-world examples
tzviya: rachel: what does this means in terms of license and copyright?
tzviya: ...I have examples that I can't share publicly
tzviya: Dave: one possibility is to replace all text with nonsense
Rachel: some of these might look like nonsense anyway ;)
tzviya: ...or just make minimalist samples so that they fall under fair use
tzviya: q+ to suggest pointers to saleable content
Zakim: tzviya, you wanted to suggest pointers to saleable content
Rachel: tzviya: hand in hand with real world scenarios
Rachel: ... we should provide purchase info with mockup
tzviya: tzviya: hand in hand with Dave's suggestion is a pointer to the real-world scenario, so link to the saleable content
tzviya: Bill_kasdorf: there is also the embarrassment factor. We will have to show code abuse that we did to accomplish this. We have to reassure people that this is okay
tzviya: Dave: That is a feature not a bug
tzviya: ... PWG wants your weird stuff
dauwhe: Topic: EPUBCHECK
dauwhe: scribenick: dauwhe
dauwhe: tzviya: there's not much of an update
dauwhe: ... there's a meeting this afternoon
dauwhe: ... we're in the middle of a repository cleanup
dauwhe: ... we have volunteers to redo existing tests based on a plan
dauwhe: ... the goal this afternoon is to come up with a plan to get this done
dauwhe: ... and we haven't even gotten the maintenance release done
dauwhe: ... which has to happen before the EPUB 3.1 release
dauwhe: ... so we need more volunteers
dauwhe: this means YOU
Julian_Calderazi: (Sorry. I'm going to write, my audio is terrible)
dauwhe: ... and we need Javafolk for 3.1
Julian_Calderazi: Will do my best to join today's meeting and see if I can help with anything
Julian_Calderazi:
dauwhe: Rachel: you mentioned java devs. what else do you need?
dauwhe: tzviya: right now we need people who know EPUB and are comfortable with github
dauwhe: Rachel: I can help
dauwhe: tzviya: it would be great if you could come to today's meeting at 2PM EST
Julian_Calderazi: Maybe we can ask Jimmy Panoz a hand?
Julian_Calderazi: yeah!
tzviya: scribenick: tzviya
tzviya: dave: epubcheck is the highest priority of this CG
dauwhe: Topic: Education
tzviya: rachel: IMS has set up their edupub WG
tzviya: ...They are meeting on a semi-regular basis to discuss LTI integration
tzviya: ...We need to set up meetings to see if we need to integrate 3.1
tzviya: they have markus on their team :)
tzviya: ...We need to look at CSS issue
tzviya: johncosta: did you receive anything about XAPI or TinCan support in 3.1?
tzviya: rachel: no, i haven't heard anything
tzviya: Dave: that sounds like it is more in the category of LTI integration
tzviya: tzviya: That sounds like it's more in the category of IMS Specs, so the person to talk to is Rick Johnson
tzviya: Dave: We will add an issue to our tracker to make sure that it's addressed
George: present+ George
tzviya: Bill_Kasdorf: Part of the ambiguity in distinguishing between edupub and epub for ed. XAPI and TinCan were part of edupub and don't really have a home in epub for ed
tzviya: ...We should have a way for these specs to interact with EPUB even though they are owned by other SDOs
tzviya: JohnCosta: We have to figure out where that communication lives.
tzviya: to be clear - this was never solved in EDUPUB either
tzviya: rachel: With analytics, there is a such a wide variety. While there are overlaps, there are so many differences.
tzviya: ...I think it's up to the owners of those standards to integrate with EPUB for Ed, not up to EPUB for Ed
tzviya: JohnCosta: Are there any scripting rules that need to be changed in EPUB for Ed?
tzviya: Rachel: I don't think so, but we are still in the early stages of section 6 exploration, so tbd
tzviya: Bill_Kasdorf: Reminder that EPUB for Ed is a profile of 3.1
tzviya: Dave: If any of these groups need something specific in order to integrate, then talk to us, but the groups need to do the integration
dauwhe: Topic: Accessibility Update
Avneesh: https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/ISO-Standardization-Discussion
tzviya: Avneesh: ISO specifications
tzviya: ...Luc, George, Makoto, Cristina, and Avneesh have created an ISO wiki page outlining ISO issues
tzviya: ...There is interest in an International Standard over a Technical Standard because it is more widely accepted, but there are some concerns
tzviya: George: WCAG 2.0 is already an ISO standard
dauwhe: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub3/2017Aug/0023.html
dauwhe: Topic: Readium CSS
tzviya: Dave: Reminder about call for particiaption in ARIA personalization TF
dauwhe: https://www.edrlab.org/2017/08/31/the-readium-css-prototype-is-available/
tzviya: Dave: readium has been doing work on relationship between the reader and the user
dauwhe: https://github.com/readium/readium-css
tzviya: ...There is a CSS prototype available
dauwhe: https://gist.github.com/JayPanoz/c5bbf0bd7e53997d3a91d9c1be44a82f
tzviya: ...In CSSWG, we are looking at user settings
tzviya: ...Jiminy wrote a thing about this too
tzviya: ...There are many intersting things that can be done if you have a little input from user about preferences
jayPanoz: @dauwhe and there is https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/ too
tzviya: ...Offer feedback to Jiminy about what you'd like to do with this and problems you encounter when try to address these issues
tzviya: the link J provided is part of the aria personalization group
dauwhe: Topic: Goals of the CG
tzviya: dave: we have a lot to do with accessibility and education
tzviya: ...we need to get epubcheck out the door so that epub 3.1 can be implemented
tzviya: ...we have tiny bits of errata
tzviya: bill_kasdorf: we recently learned that there are still a shocking number of epub 2s being published
tzviya: ...that may be more of an education issue
tzviya: dave: this is more advocacy and evanglism, maybe not a natural function of this group
tzviya: you should
Rachel: I find dauwhe very persuasive
Julian_Calderazi: we deal with device fragmentation also of course.
tzviya: Bill_Kasdorf: We can look into what problem epub 2 can create in the marketplace
tzviya: George: I don't know about relevance, but epubtest.org is doing accessibility testing of different systems
tzviya: ...We have blind and low-vision testers, and we're finding that low-vision users want to stop using their specialized tools and just increase font size
tzviya: ...learning disabled community is ditching AT for read-aloud functions
tzviya: dave: happy to help with that
tzviya: ...this is great news. We are seeing that the tools offered by epub are being used by a larger community
dauwhe: tzviya: that's really interesting. Is this documented? I'd love to share this with my employers, ARIA, etc.
dauwhe: ... it has lots of implications for the A11y tree, and how we create accessible content
dauwhe: George: we have the test book which shows all the tests and how to perform them
dauwhe: tzviya: the information that low-vision testers are ditching specialized tools and using larger font sizes--that sort of info
dauwhe: George: I can work on that for some kind of article
dauwhe: ... Jim Allen, who heads up WAI low vision task force, could also chip in
dauwhe: tzviya: that would be great
jayPanoz: About font-size, it’s been my worst nightmare for the last two weeks. Recommend best practices warning absolute values shouldn't be used if possible.
jayPanoz: In Readium 1, it’s achieved using JavaScript, so the whole DOM tree must be checked and modified.
tzviya: are you making a recommendation about an epubcheck warning?
jayPanoz: We’re trying to do that in pure CSS, but it requires the user opting-in a normalize font-sizes.
jayPanoz: If that could be a warning in epubcheck, that would be great.
dauwhe: tzviya: are we talking about a best practices document?
tzviya: rachel: we could start a wiki and go from there
tzviya: +1 to a wiki
tzviya: thanks!
dauwhe: rrsagent, draft minutes
RRSAgent: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/31-epub3cg-minutes.html dauwhe